Amityville Horror Revealed: Special Halloween Episode | The True Paranormal Case File of The Warrens | Ep #19

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It was a long time ago, back in
the 1970s, in a house that

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perhaps has haunted your dreams.
For the story that you are about

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to be told began with a man,
Defeo junior comma Ronald.

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Now you've probably wondered
where hauntings come from.

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If you haven't, well, I'm not.
Exactly sure what it is that

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you're doing here exactly, but.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.

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Happy Halloween.
I am Madam Strangeways.

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Now.
Ghosts and ghouls of every age.

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Wouldn't you like to hear
something strange tonight?

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I have for you a most
bewitchingly special Halloween

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episode.
So go ahead, light your Jack O

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lanterns.
Get the candy we both know you

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didn't buy for the trick or
treaters.

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Those are for you.
And that candy is for you,

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clearly, as well it should be.
You earned it and.

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Prepare thy selves to hear all
about The Amityville Horror

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House on this special Halloween
episode of Madame Strangeways.

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The Amityville Horror House
Haunting In 1975, newlyweds

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Kathy and George Lutz, along
with their three children,

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Daniel, Christopher and Missy,
and their Malamute Labrador mix

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named Harry were looking forward
to moving into their new home at

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112 Ocean Ave. in Amityville,
NY, even though the realtor had

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warned them about the recent
violent tragedy that had

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occurred in it just a year
before.

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On November 13th, 1974, Ronald
Defeo Junior murdered his six

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family members, both his mother
and father, and his four

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siblings by shooting them all at
close proximity with a 35

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caliber lever action Marlin 336C
rifle while they slept in their

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beds at around 3:15 AM.
There were no signs of a

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struggle and no sedatives were
found in their systems to

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explain how not a single one of
them woke up to the sounds of so

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many loud gunshots.
De Feo claimed that he heard

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voices telling him to kill his
entire family because they were

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plotting to kill him, and that
he had seen a demonic woman with

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black hands and a black hood
appear to him and hand him the

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rifle he would use to annihilate
his family.

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Though the realtor had informed
the Lutzes of the grisly

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killings at $80,000 for
waterfront property in a great

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neighborhood, it was too good
for them to pass up.

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They even kept the De Feo's old
furniture that had been left in

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the house and as chilling as it
felt, the children used the very

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bed frames that the de Feo kids
had slept in when they were

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slain.
The three story home was a large

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Dutch colonial house in a nice
suburban neighborhood on the

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South Shore of Long Island.
With 3600 square feet, 5

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bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, a pool
and a boathouse, it was a dream

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home for the Lutzes that they
could never have afforded if not

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for its morbid history.
It had sat vacant for 13 months

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through the murder investigation
and subsequent trial.

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Only two weeks prior, de Feo had
been sentenced to six counts of

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25 years for the murder of his
family.

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But the Lutzes were ready to
move in.

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Maybe the iconic quarter moon
windows that had the eerie

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appearance of eyes not unlike A
sinister Jack O Lantern hadn't

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yet seemed foreboding.
At his friend's insistence, due

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to the house's history, George
decided to call Father Ray

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Pecarero, a local priest he was
acquainted with, to bless the

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house.
As the priest prayed in

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sprinkled holy water to perform
the blessings, a chilling

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masculine voice commanded him to
get out.

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Startled, he hurriedly finished
and didn't immediately share the

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experience with the family,
though he would later warn

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George to not let anyone in the
family sleep in that room.

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Wisely, they didn't.
They made it into a sewing room

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instead.
From the beginning, the house

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seemed to take control.
George found himself waking at

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exactly 3:15 AM every night, the
exact time that De Feo had shot

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and killed his entire family.
The house was relentlessly cold,

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no matter how much wood he fed
the fireplace.

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He grew fixated, spending hours
in front of it, staring into the

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flames while an unsettling
tension grew between him and his

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wife, Kathy.
The sewing room where Father Ray

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Pecuero had felt the slap and
heard the voice shout at him

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quickly became a nightmare.
Out of nowhere, hundreds upon

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hundreds of flies swarmed inside
of the room, despite the

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freezing weather outside.
George and Kathy both tried

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swatting and spraying, but the
flies always came back.

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It was as if they were drawn to
something dark and rotten in

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that room.
Their youngest child, Missy,

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began talking to a new friend
named Jodie.

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Standing outside Missy's bedroom
door, Kathy would hear her

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daughter talking as though
engaged in conversation with

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someone, and she even heard
another voice audibly replying.

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But whenever Kathy opened the
door to check, she'd find Missy

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alone, sitting on her bed,
talking to an empty rocking

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chair that was rocking gently
back and forth as if someone had

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been sitting in it unseen.
That was Jody, an imaginary

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friend who turned out to be a
floating pig with glowing red

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eyes who could change size at
will, sometimes shrinking to fit

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in her arms like a teddy bear,
other times growing larger than

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the house itself.
One night, George glanced up at

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Missy's bedroom window from
outside, and his blood went cold

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at what he saw too.
Beady glowing red eyes were

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staring down at him from inside
his daughter's room.

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When he rushed inside, Missy was
alone, claiming that Jodie had

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been watching her, too.
Later, George would find cloven

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hoofed footprints in the morning
snow outside her window that

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resembled either a pig's or a
devil's.

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More than once 6 year old
Christopher was laying on his

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bed at night looking out into
the hallway and right in front

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of the door would appear a
figure standing there watching

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him.
The figure didn't have legs, it

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looked like a shadow, but there
was no one in the hall to cast

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it.
It terrorized him and he would

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be paralysed with fear.
Another time, when his brother

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Danny locked him in a closet and
refused to let him out,

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Christopher, in the dark, felt a
hand grip his leg as he was

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trapped there, unable to escape.
Strange manifestations continued

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to grip the family.
Kathy began having vivid

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nightmares about the de Feo
murders, seeing herself in each

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victim's place, almost as though
the house was forcing her to

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relive the trauma.
She even learned the order in

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which De Feo killed each member
of his family through these

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dreams.
Then one night, she felt an

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unseen force press her down into
the bed, rendering her immobile.

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The terror escalated until she
felt her body lifting off the

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bed and levitating in the air.
When George witnessed this, he

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said her face looked sunken and
prematurely aged, like an old,

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decrepit crown.
When she returned to herself and

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looked in the mirror, she found
her face still covered in deep

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lines that took time to fade
away.

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Whenever they tried phoning
Father Ray, the phone simply

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wouldn't work.
They even called the phone

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company to have them look into
the issue, but nothing was wrong

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with the phone line itself.
It only ever happened when they

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tried to call a priest.
The tension in the house finally

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reached a breaking point.
The walls oozed green slime

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untraceable to any source, and
black ooze seeped from key holes

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and doors.
Windows and cabinets would open

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and slam shut on their own, and
a door burst off its hinges.

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The children even began to sleep
on their stomachs, which was

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unlike them, but that was the
exact position that all of the

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dead De Feo children were found
in, with gunshot wounds in their

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backs, lying face down on their
stomachs in bed.

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Then one night, which none of
the Lutzes have ever discussed

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in detail, it's said that George
must have become violent.

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He and Kathy both feared he
might follow into Pheo's

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footsteps and end up murdering
his wife and children if they

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didn't do something immediately.
Finally, after 28 days of

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escalating fear and danger, the
Lutz's fled their dream home.

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They packed only the essentials,
took their dog and left for

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Kathy's mother's house, leaving
behind most of their belongings

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and vowing never to return.
All right, what you just heard

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was a retelling of the things
that happened in the book The

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Amityville Horror, written by
author Jay Anson and based on

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things that George and Kathy
Lutz say actually happened to

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their family when they were
living there after they moved in

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after Tefeo murdered his entire
family.

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So the very true part about this
story is that Ronnie Junior

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really did kill both of his
parents and all four of his

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siblings one night in 112 Ocean
Ave. in Amityville.

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That's true.
It is also true that George and

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Kathy Lutz moved in with their
family about a year after the

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murders.
From there, the 28 days that

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they spent in the house, no one
will really know what happened

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to them.
But they did send hours of

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recordings of stories and things
that happened to the author, Jay

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Ensign.
And then he took those

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recordings and wrote The
Amityville Horror.

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So he didn't actually have any
conversations with them.

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He didn't interview them.
He just took their recordings of

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them telling stories.
And from there, maybe he

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embellished some things.
Maybe he embellished everything.

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Maybe he embellished only a
little.

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And George and Kathy Lutz
embellished a lot.

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You know some people.
Say that everything they said

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was was a lie.
Some people say that Oh well,

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some of it had to be true,
right?

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I mean, the kind of things that
happened in that house with that

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gun, namely him killing his
entire family, him annihilating

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his entire family, that sort of
thing probably can't happen in a

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space without some lingering a
long term repercussions

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specifically to the vibe, like
maybe a residual haunting,

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right?
Nobody would make up everything

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that happened just to, you know,
I don't know, make a ton of

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money.
OK OK, I'm getting ahead of

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myself.
Let's revisit.

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This is the story of The
Amityville Horror House.

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It started as a book, as I
mentioned, and then it was made

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into a movie in 1979, The
Amityville Horror.

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So when I was in fifth grade, I
really wanted to impress my dad,

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who really liked super scary
stuff.

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I mean, from a very young age, I
knew he watched very scary

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things and he owned a copy of
the book of The Amityville

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Horror.
Now, in the book that he owned,

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the cover said a true story
because that's how it was

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originally published.
So when I decided this is a very

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scary book, that if I read this,
he will notice how cool I am and

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everything will be so much
better in my life.

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This is, you know what?
I'm going to bring this up with

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my therapist in my next session.
But the point is, I really did

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want to impress him.
I also wanted to impress my

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teachers at school.
I wanted them to think, wow baby

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Madam Strangeways, she is 1 cool
tough cookie.

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So I kind of made a show of
carrying the book around.

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I also made a show of reading
the book, but I didn't actually.

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Read the book.
I mean, I did.

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I did try.
I did try to read the book, but

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it was so scary.
I couldn't hang.

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I was not a cool, tough cookie.
I was not brave enough to read

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The Amityville Horror, A true
story.

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The the pig demon scared me.
But the part that I actually

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most vividly remember from my
attempts at reading the book was

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a closet.
And inside the closet there was

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a crucifix.
But the crucifix flipped upside

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down.
So it was an upside down cross,

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which now people associate with
Satanism and devil worshippers

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and etcetera.
But really, an upside down cross

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is just known as Saint Peter's
cross because Saint Peter, when

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he was being crucified, he said
no, no, no, Jesus was crucified

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upright.
So I don't want to pretend to be

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as holy as Jesus.
So you're going to have to

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crucify me upside down.
I don't deserve to be crucified

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in the same way as Jesus was.
Even though actually that was a

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completely, totally normal,
normal practice to crucify

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people upright.
So I don't know why that was

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specific to Jesus.
Anyway, the point is Saint

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Peter's Cross isn't actually
evil.

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So I'm I don't know where it
actually started to become

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associated with evilness.
Probably, I would assume around

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the time of the Satanic Panic,
which, you know, yes, we know

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that it happened in the 80s, but
as you'll hear, kind of really

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started late 60s, probably
around the time of the civil

224
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,960
rights movement.
The point is, I tried to read

225
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,080
that book and it was too scary.
I still, I still didn't want

226
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,600
anybody to know that I was too
weak to read it.

227
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,600
Well, let me tell you two
things.

228
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,040
One, I am still too weak to read
it.

229
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,280
I still actually have not
watched the full movie because

230
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,760
it was so impactful to me and it
was just so scary to me from

231
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,240
such a young age that I just I'm
good.

232
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,640
No hard pass.
But number 2IN subsequent

233
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:25,120
publications of the novel, they
had to drop, forced by a court

234
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:30,240
of law, they had to remove the
tagline, a true story from the

235
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,840
front of the book.
Because I think you kind of know

236
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,680
where this is going.
It may not have been a true

237
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,000
story.
Kind of like the Blair Witch.

238
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,040
The Blair Witch marketing was
heavily centered around this is

239
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,040
a true story.
It was not just the beginning of

240
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,280
the movie that said this is a
true story.

241
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,240
That was the marketing all
around The Blair Witch, and I

242
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,960
fell for that too.
I mean, I was also still a

243
00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,120
child, but I fell for it and it
traumatized me.

244
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,720
I that is still to this day,
probably the scariest movie that

245
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,520
I've ever seen purely because of
the impact that it had on my

246
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,160
young developing mind.
When I truly believed that this

247
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,840
was actual found footage and I
didn't understand that I was

248
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,120
being lied to.
Much in the same vein, I did not

249
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:21,520
understand that the things in
the book were being greatly

250
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,360
exaggerated because I believed
that if someone told me this is

251
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:31,600
a true story, I foolishly and
naively believed, oh, it must be

252
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,600
a true story.
And I know I'm not the only one.

253
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,520
This is also on the heels of
let's just let's put this in

254
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,640
perspective.
So The Amityville Horror Book

255
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:49,000
was released in 1977, and not
that long earlier a movie you

256
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,200
might have heard of called The
Exorcist came out in 1973.

257
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,200
But just two years earlier, the
book that the movie The Exorcist

258
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,040
was based on came out.
And that book was loosely

259
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:06,760
inspired by two tales of true
exorcisms.

260
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,600
Whether or not demons were
involved or not, that's up to

261
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:17,920
you, but two actual exorcisms
inspired the writer to write the

262
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,080
exorcism book, which then was
turned into a movie.

263
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,920
So right there you've got in the
very recent history leading up

264
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:31,560
to The Amityville Horror, you
have an A spectacularly popular

265
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,840
and culturally significant film
and book, The Exorcist, which is

266
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,240
said to be inspired by or based
on, depending on how you want to

267
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:46,520
talk about it, true events.
So that being said, The Exorcist

268
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:53,240
sort of led the way for people
to be primed for The Amityville

269
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,360
Horror to be a true story.
And we're just going to just

270
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,080
just really quickly, we're just
going to also talk about a

271
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,480
little book called The Satan
Cellar, which came out in 1972,

272
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,120
the year before The Exorcist
came out.

273
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:11,200
And that was written by this
total con artist, flim flam to

274
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,520
the extreme, Mike Warnke, who
claimed that he had been

275
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,880
involved in this satanic cult
and they did all sorts of, you

276
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:27,680
know, sexual orgies and rituals,
sacrifices, and he was some kind

277
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,640
of satanic high priest.
No, he wasn't.

278
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,440
None of that happened.
I mean, it's it's been proven

279
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,520
none of this happened.
None of it was true.

280
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,840
But it didn't come out for 20
years after the book was

281
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,920
published and was a best seller.
So probably a lot of the people

282
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,040
that read that book never got
the memo that this guy was

283
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,320
lying.
So true stories, we're going to

284
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,800
go back true quote UN quote,
true stories involving demons

285
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,320
that turn into best selling
books were super hot in the

286
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,280
early 70s.
Not only that, not only that,

287
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,840
but I let me, let me come back
to the exorcist.

288
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,400
Let me bring this back to The
Exorcist, because I think that

289
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:16,280
it's really important that we
understand just how different

290
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,680
and how insane The Exorcist
movie was when it came out.

291
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,080
I mean, picture it because now
you can just stream any number

292
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,440
of of deeply traumatizing and
horrifying horror movies.

293
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,240
I mean, there's so many, you can
go and see as as many as you

294
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,240
want right now.
You can find a snuff film if you

295
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,960
wanted to, probably without much
difficulty.

296
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,600
I mean, it's probably not on the
front page of YouTube, but I bet

297
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,320
you could.
So that's not how things worked

298
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:55,320
in 1973 when The Exorcist came
out.

299
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,640
That's not how the world worked.
This was a time where the the

300
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,720
scariest movie prior to this was
Rosemary's Baby, which was also

301
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,320
deeply impactful.
And that came out in 1969.

302
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,120
Nice.
Nope. 1968 less nice.

303
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,560
And you do see that Rosemary's
Baby combined with The Exorcist

304
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:25,280
and Amityville Horror is sort of
this unholy Trinity of scary

305
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,120
movies involving Satanists and
demons that sort of paved the

306
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:36,080
way for Satanic Panic.
So that being said, you've got

307
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,600
Rosemary's Baby.
Then after that you have The

308
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,920
Exorcist.
The Exorcist rocked people's

309
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,320
worlds.
I mean, people were fainting all

310
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,240
over the country.
People that were watching this

311
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,480
movie, they were going to the
theater.

312
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,120
They waited 4 hours to see this
movie.

313
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,280
They fainted.
People were throwing up.

314
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,640
They were having to run out of
the theater and throw up.

315
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,840
I mean, there was even a case
where actually multiple cases

316
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:06,920
where there was what they called
cinematic neurosis triggered in

317
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,560
some patients.
And this was noted by a

318
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,320
psychiatrist put in the Journal
of Nervous and Mental Disease in

319
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,160
1975.
And if you haven't watched The

320
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,400
Exorcist, if you watched it
right now, it maybe it would

321
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,920
scare you, but probably you'll
be like really this but but

322
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,000
picture this, OK, Picture how
people will say like, oh man,

323
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,120
Can you imagine if you gave a
peasant from 1400s, from the

324
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:36,200
1400s like a sip of Monster
Energy drink?

325
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,600
Like they would die, You know,
take that kind of logic and

326
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,600
apply it.
But it's instead of 1400s

327
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,160
peasants, it's actually just
people living in 1975, which was

328
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,400
not that long ago.
Oh, I'm sorry, 19, not 1975.

329
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,440
I'm sorry, 1973.
That was not that long ago in

330
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,960
the scheme of things.
But so these peasants are people

331
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,920
living in 1973.
And Monster Energy Drink is just

332
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,440
the movie The Exorcist.
Like they were not prepared.

333
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,120
The world was not prepared.
It terrified people.

334
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,880
In fact, the people that it
terrified the most were lapsed

335
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,200
Catholics.
They were terrified.

336
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,120
Oh my God, I've got to go back
to the church.

337
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:23,160
So actually the Catholic Church
was a huge fan of the movie,

338
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,960
even though I think at first
they kind of said, oh, we don't,

339
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,080
we don't love this.
But guess what?

340
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,680
It drove a lot of people back to
the church.

341
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,960
So I am telling you this, you're
wondering, why are you telling

342
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,120
me this?
This is a podcast about The

343
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,800
Amityville Horror.
I think it is extremely

344
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:45,200
important to understand how
culturally relevant and just

345
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,720
genre changing the movie The
Exorcist was and also how recent

346
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,840
it was to the murders.
So just the year before, Ronnie

347
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,440
Defeo murdered his entire family
and then claimed that there was

348
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,720
a demon and the demon told him
to do it.

349
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,840
Just one year prior to that, the
exorcist came out and his family

350
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,880
was Catholic.
And on top of that, I just don't

351
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,920
see, I just don't see a world in
which he did not watch it, or at

352
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,920
least he didn't hear about it.
It was all over the news.

353
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,880
It was, it was huge.
It was, there weren't, you

354
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,520
couldn't go to the movies and
just see 500 movies.

355
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,280
There wasn't 500 movies
available in 1973.

356
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,520
You had a limited amount of
movies.

357
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,640
You didn't have streaming.
There was just a lot less media

358
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,120
in the world.
And so when it came out, it was

359
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,440
really impactful.
So just, I just think it's

360
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,040
important because we don't think
about things like this in this

361
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,880
context anymore.
Like we're also desensitized to

362
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,160
extreme horror and we're
inundated with media constantly.

363
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,360
That is not the case in 1973.
So I just want you to keep this

364
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:56,800
in mind that not only was the
public primed to hear a story, a

365
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,880
possibly true story about demons
and hauntings and and terrifying

366
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:08,480
demonic satanic stuff, but
Ronald Defeo himself probably

367
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,600
also had it on the mind that, Oh
well, hold on a second, demons.

368
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,120
Demons can make people do
things.

369
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,520
Demons can possess people.
I better keep that in mind for

370
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:27,120
my defense so that I can claim
insanity and that a demon made

371
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:28,280
me do it.
I don't know.

372
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,960
I'm just saying, I'm just
throwing it out there.

373
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,840
I'm just floating the idea,
that's all.

374
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,160
But I also want you to keep in
mind two other people that might

375
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,560
have had this top of mind for
them, and that is Kathy and

376
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,280
George Lutz.
So now that you're a little bit

377
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,880
more familiar with what was
happening at the time, let's

378
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,600
move on to 112 Ocean Ave.,
Amityville, NY.

379
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,240
Which by the way, you will find
that they changed the address to

380
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,160
one O 8 Ocean Ave.
I believe very recently within

381
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,760
the last few years as I guess a
way to deter people from finding

382
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:12,480
it because people are insane and
they bother the house and the

383
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,640
street constantly being looky
loos.

384
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,440
But all to say, 112 Ocean Ave.
one O 8 Ocean Ave. whatever you

385
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,560
want to call it, let's get into
it.

386
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,360
So the Defeo murders true,
definitely happened.

387
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,520
The Lutz's true, definitely
lived there.

388
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,720
Everything else from that point
on, that's up for discussion.

389
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,800
There were a paranormal
investigators that did an

390
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:42,080
investigation in the Lutz's
house after they left, but not

391
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,440
before they left, just to be
clear.

392
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,680
So after to fail after the
Lutz's, that's when an

393
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,560
investigation happened.
But there were a lot of people

394
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,920
at the investigation, some
skeptics, some believers.

395
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,960
You've got a mixed bag.
Some people said nothing

396
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,640
actually happened and they
didn't experience anything

397
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,920
paranormal.
And then you have Ed and

398
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,280
Lorraine Warren, the famous
paranormal investigator couple

399
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,800
known from The Conjuring,
Annabelle, the Enfield

400
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,960
poltergeist, who of course
insisted there was a lot of

401
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,200
activity and there were demonic
attacks and demonic possessions.

402
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,240
And like I've said before on the
show, when you're a

403
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,360
demonologist, which is what Ed
called himself, when you're a

404
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,040
demonologist, everything's a
demon.

405
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,280
When you have a hammer,
everything's a nail.

406
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,720
That's how demonologists
operate.

407
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,240
That's their whole thing.
So of course he encountered some

408
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,360
demons.
But here's the thing.

409
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,720
But I can't get into Ed and
Lorraine Warren or we're going

410
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,440
to be here for another, I don't
know, approximately 6 hours as I

411
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,720
talk about this.
So we're just going to gloss

412
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,000
over Ed and Lorraine Warren.
Just know that yes, they did

413
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,760
come investigate the house about
within a year of the Lutz's

414
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,600
leaving.
So let's just, let's just put it

415
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,280
there and put a pin in that.
And we're never going to revisit

416
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,400
that until maybe a future
episode.

417
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,040
Let me know, do you want to hear
it right.

418
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:15,400
So back to the house on Ocean
Ave. waterfront property, just

419
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:21,120
huge, massive, hugely good deal.
I mean, you know, location,

420
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,160
location, location in real
estate, right?

421
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,920
That's why they were able to
overlook the grisly murders that

422
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,920
happened inside of the house
because it was a great location.

423
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,160
It was waterfront.
I mean, this is a noise property

424
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,640
and when they bought that house
for $80,000 in 1975, let's,

425
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,200
let's pause and let's do some,
let's do some adjusting for

426
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,960
inflation so that you can
understand the buying power that

427
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,200
that sort of money had back then
compared to now.

428
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,880
The equivalent buying power of
that $80,000 in 1975 would

429
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:04,480
actually be in real estate
terms, $525,000 in 2024 money.

430
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,520
This is a steal.
They were really like, man, if

431
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,040
we don't buy this insanely
expensive house that is

432
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,440
discounted heavily from the
houses around it, but is still a

433
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,360
considerable amount of money, if
we don't buy this house, we'd be

434
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,040
losing money.
That's really how they came into

435
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:31,040
the situation.
And seeing as how George was

436
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:36,840
into a lot of weird New Age
occult stuff, like

437
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Transcendental Meditation for
example, because he was into

438
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,360
that kind of stuff.
He was really into the occult.

439
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,120
He was really into just
paranormal, supernatural.

440
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,400
I think he kind of thought that
he could do stuff with his mind,

441
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,880
communicate psychically with
people.

442
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,840
I mean, this guy had a lot of
those interests before he moved

443
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,600
into a murder house.
And I think if you're listening

444
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,680
to this show, that you also
probably would consider moving

445
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,800
into a house in which a grisly,
heinous murder had happened.

446
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,360
I'm just, I'm just assuming that
if you are morbid enough to

447
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,720
listen to something about The
Amityville Horror, that you

448
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,800
would also fall into that you
would also fall under that

449
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,360
umbrella of that like, yeah, OK,
so people died in the.

450
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,800
House but like.
I kind of like ghosts and I kind

451
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,560
of like scary stuff, so that's
OK.

452
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,720
If you're not and you wouldn't
do that, I get it cuz I also

453
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,360
wouldn't want that kind of
energy.

454
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,880
But I know there's people out
there that are really like

455
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,800
looking for a haunted house or
they're looking for a house with

456
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,760
a creepy spooky back story and
they would gladly pay over

457
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,240
asking price for it.
So the fact that they found this

458
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,520
house and it was such a steal
and George was super into a lot

459
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,760
of the weird ghostly, spooky,
creepy stuff.

460
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:03,040
Well, I mean, what were they
going to do?

461
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,760
Not buy it?
And by the way, his interest

462
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,080
into all of this weird New Age
occulti stuff also then made

463
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,159
lots of rumors that he was into
Satanism and he was involved in

464
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,719
the occult.
And obviously maybe he was the

465
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,840
one that was bringing in all of
this demonic and satanic energy,

466
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,520
etcetera, etcetera, blah, blah,
blah.

467
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,639
Probably not, but they did also.
People also thought really weird

468
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:33,719
things in the 70s.
They thought yoga.

469
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,920
Yoga was a problem.
Yoga was probably from the

470
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,159
devil.
I say they meaning kind of more

471
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:45,679
evangelical believers, but also
probably some like mainstream

472
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,920
lapsed Catholics and some people
that used to be religious and

473
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,639
maybe just kind of aren't so
much anymore.

474
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,800
They were kind of SUS about
yoga.

475
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,840
And also Dungeons and Dragons,
which by the way came out

476
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,280
literally in the middle of all
of this.

477
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:10,280
So 1974 when Defeo killed all of
his family, same year Dungeons

478
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,880
and Dragons was released.
So I don't know if he had a

479
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,000
chance to play Dungeons and
Dragons.

480
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,480
I mean, I guess that could be a
possible explanation for the

481
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,600
murders is that maybe he got a
hold of this new cool game.

482
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:25,840
Nobody would have called it
that.

483
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,320
He got a hold of this weird game
called Dungeons and Dragons and

484
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:36,520
he played it and he allowed the
devil into his home and his life

485
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,120
and his body and the devil took
control of him and threw his his

486
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,760
his level 1 berserker.
Is that a class warrior?

487
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,160
Whatever, when, whatever class
he was, That's that's what

488
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,120
happened is actually he didn't
kill his whole family.

489
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:02,040
His character Grognar is the one
who who killed everyone.

490
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,720
That should have been his
defense.

491
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,840
Like what were they thinking?
All to say though, seriously,

492
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,640
people thought Dungeons and
Dragons was of the devil.

493
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,480
It was of the devil along with
all of the scary rock'n'roll

494
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,880
music that was coming out.
Oh Satan, heavy metal music.

495
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,600
We already had the oh rock, rock
music is from the devil.

496
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,280
We already had that phase.
We're done with that phase now.

497
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,600
We're in the 70s now.
It's heavy metal, and now that

498
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,440
is what is of the devil.
So really, there are a few

499
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,480
things that you absolutely have
to talk about if you want to

500
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,960
discuss the Amityville house,
the horror house, at least

501
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,040
specifically the things that
happened to Kathy and George

502
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,680
Lutz.
You can't talk about the haunted

503
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:48,200
house aspect without talking
about the true crime aspect,

504
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,760
which was the Defeo murders.
You really can't because Kathy

505
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,440
and George Lutz would have never
moved into the house if Ronnie

506
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,280
hadn't murdered his entire
family, for instance, Just

507
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,920
wouldn't have happened.
So we do have to talk about

508
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,680
that.
And also, here's the thing

509
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,280
that's just absolutely wild to
me is that that story is already

510
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,200
terrifying enough.
I mean, there's already

511
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,600
mysteries that that doesn't,
there's things that don't make

512
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,520
sense in that story that we will
never find the answer to.

513
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:27,280
I just don't even know that we
need oozing walls and demon pig

514
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,040
ghosts.
I don't think that's even

515
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,800
necessary.
It's like there's already a

516
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,040
scary enough story, like one of
the details that just absolutely

517
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,440
still sticks with me about the
murders.

518
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,400
I mean, aside from the family
annihilation, which is already

519
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,840
bad, Aside from that, every
single family member really was

520
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:54,120
found face down lying on their
stomach with their arms raised

521
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,400
above their heads in their beds.
You know what?

522
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,880
That's like some cult stuff.
And probably not even

523
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,920
specifically satanic it it
sounds almost, you know, like

524
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,480
the stories that you hear about,
like suicide cults, except in

525
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,480
this case clearly wasn't suicide
as the gunshots were in their

526
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,200
backs or the backs of their
heads.

527
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,120
On top of that, his mother,
Louise, and his sister Don, were

528
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,480
said to have in some reports
have been awake at the time of

529
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,840
the shootings, but there was no
signs of a struggle.

530
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,680
So how did that happen?
You know, how did, how did none

531
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,320
of them wake up?
How was there no struggle?

532
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,200
You're probably saying, well,
obviously, Madam, there was a

533
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,360
silencer on the rifle.
Oh, contraire, there was not.

534
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,280
There was not a silencer on the
rifle, at least according to the

535
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,840
police reports.
They said there was no silencer

536
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,480
on the weapon.
Oh, well, obviously the family

537
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,720
must have been drugged.
You're then continuing to insist

538
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,720
you would be wrong again because
apparently the autopsy reports

539
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:10,440
came back and said there was no
proof, no evidence of sedatives

540
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,160
in any of their systems.
Even though in one of his many,

541
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,880
many interviews where he changed
his story about 5000 times,

542
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,600
Ronnie did say at one point that
he drugged his family with

543
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,800
barbiturates.
However, the toxicology report

544
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,320
came back and said that was a
lie, but it could have been some

545
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,880
sort of sedative that was very
quickly metabolized or it could

546
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,040
be something that they didn't
know how to test for.

547
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,240
I mean, this happened in 1974.
We only put a man on the moon in

548
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,880
1969.
So how advanced was our

549
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,320
technology back then?
You know, like if we tested it

550
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,400
now, would it come up
differently?

551
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,560
We'll never know.
Maybe they were drugged.

552
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,640
But let me tell you who
definitely wasn't drugged.

553
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,320
That's the neighbors around them
who didn't hear any gunshots.

554
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,240
This is like a pretty quiet
area.

555
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,640
It was a nice area.
There weren't gunshots all the

556
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,880
time or like cars backfiring.
It was it was a residential area

557
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,320
with families.
So how did none of the neighbors

558
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,800
hear gunshots?
So they weren't drugged.

559
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,760
They didn't hear any of the
gunshots.

560
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,480
And apparently this rifle is
crazy loud.

561
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,160
It's like a lever action, like
where you have to pull the lever

562
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,080
down on the bottom of the gun to
reload.

563
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,960
I don't know gun terms, but I
did pull up a YouTube video and

564
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,960
watched someone do it and it
looked like Wild West, like

565
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,520
you're on a horse trying to hold
up a train.

566
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,120
It literally looked like a train
heist gun.

567
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,440
That's what it looked like.
So apparently they're super

568
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,560
loud.
Nobody heard that, especially

569
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,560
because they did hear the Defeo
dog barking his head off all

570
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,640
night.
He was a sheepdog, by the way.

571
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,680
What was his name?
Let me look really quick hold,

572
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,480
please, Shaggy.
So here's one thing that we can

573
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,240
say about the Defeo's Super
creative.

574
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,920
Super creative with their pet
names.

575
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,520
A sheepdog named Shaggy was
barking his head off constantly

576
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,280
all night.
So the neighbors heard that, but

577
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,680
not the rifles that went off.
The rifle that went off.

578
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,520
OK OK hold on.
I did say multiple rifles.

579
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,560
I said rifles instead of rifle.
Well, one of the theories is

580
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,680
that there had to be multiple
people involved in the killing

581
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,040
and, and maybe one of those
people, according to Defeo, was

582
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,040
his sister Dawn.
In fact, at one point Defeo

583
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:47,240
claimed that Dawn actually
killed everybody except him.

584
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:51,240
And then he came back and found
that she had killed everyone and

585
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,880
then he killed her in her bed.
But then there's another story,

586
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:00,880
I think, where he Dawn killed
everybody except their mom.

587
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,960
And then I might be getting this
wrong, but it's not.

588
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,480
It doesn't matter because it's
nonsense and not true anyway.

589
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,080
Anyway, Defeo claimed a lot of
things.

590
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,240
Defeo.
Defeo claimed a lot of things to

591
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:16,120
get out of his trial and to get
out of going to jail.

592
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,280
Specifically, he wanted to go to
a mental hospital.

593
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,440
That's where he wanted to go,
not jail.

594
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,520
Ronnie did a lot of drugs, not
just weed.

595
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,880
I know this is the 70s, but not
just weed.

596
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,240
No, no, he did LSD.
He did heroin and speed.

597
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,840
I didn't do those in the right
order.

598
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,320
I probably should have built
that up.

599
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,920
I should have said he did speed.
That was probably a lot more

600
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,640
normal in the 70s.
My mom told me once that she did

601
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,280
speed and all she did was clean
the entire apartment really

602
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,280
well, which makes me think I
need to try speed.

603
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:56,240
So speed, LSD and heroin, those
are the drugs that Defeo did.

604
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,960
And here's the thing about those
drugs is that if you have

605
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,360
existing psychological
conditions, if you have kind of

606
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,560
a history of of violence or
psychosis, those drugs can

607
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,920
exacerbate those symptoms.
I mean, even if you don't have a

608
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,000
history of mental illness, even
if you don't have any of that,

609
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,240
you can still by doing any
number of those drugs,

610
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:26,760
especially heavily, which he
did, it can cause drug induced

611
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,720
psychosis, which can cause you
to murder your family.

612
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,880
You can Google it right now and
find out that multiple people

613
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,240
since the murders have been
diagnosed with drug induced

614
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:43,280
psychosis, murdered their
families, went to trial and that

615
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,720
was their defense.
It was, I think it's called

616
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:49,680
settled insanity, where they did
murder these people.

617
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,000
However, they were in the midst
of a psychosis.

618
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,040
So it's sort of the insanity
defense, but it's a little bit

619
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,240
different because it was caused
by, it's caused by drugs.

620
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,680
So, you know, maybe that did,
maybe that did have something to

621
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,680
do with it.
Maybe he was in a constant state

622
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,520
of psychosis doing all these
drugs.

623
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:14,480
Maybe he was doing the drugs to
escape the demons in the house.

624
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,760
Maybe the demons made him do.
Maybe the demons made him do

625
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,040
drugs.
The demons did not get the

626
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,560
message.
Just saying no.

627
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,040
In fact, that message didn't
happen yet.

628
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,400
That message didn't happen until
what, the 80s?

629
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,000
Yes, the 80s.
Nineteen 82 to be exact.

630
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,400
Nancy Reagan.
Thanks, Nancy.

631
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,480
So, you know, I guess they
didn't get the message because

632
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,200
it hadn't happened yet.
So who can blame the demons for

633
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,320
making him do drugs?
Or who can blame Defeo?

634
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,440
He didn't know.
He didn't have Nancy Reagan

635
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,240
telling him.
Just say no.

636
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:46,760
It would have never occurred to
him.

637
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,680
But demons are again, how some
people explain how none of the

638
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:55,240
neighbors or none of the family
awoke and heard the rifles.

639
00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,440
So some people claim that it was
demons that held these people in

640
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,520
their beds that either kept them
asleep or muffled the sounds of

641
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,800
the rifle or, you know, I don't
know.

642
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,240
I don't know.
The thing is demonology

643
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,680
demonologists, or specifically
one demonologist who I told you

644
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,080
we're not going to talk about,
so I'm not going to talk about

645
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,120
them.
But he says that it was demons,

646
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,560
but I can't explain it.
So I have to concede that demons

647
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,560
are on the table.
Demons are an option because how

648
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,080
else did listen?
He killed his father first.

649
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,760
De Feo killed his father first,
shot him in the back of his head

650
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,760
twice with a rifle close range
in bed.

651
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,720
His mother was in bed beside his
father.

652
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:49,320
Even if she was awake, then why
didn't she run or fight or react

653
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,960
in any way other than laying in
bed and waiting to be shot?

654
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,640
Like was it sleep paralysis?
Was it demon paralysis?

655
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,760
I mean, I know we talk about
sleep paralysis demons, but

656
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,680
feels like demon paralysis is a
completely different level of

657
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,360
paralysis.
Sleep paralysis.

658
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,280
I feel like you hear a shotgun.
I'm sorry.

659
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:14,960
A rifle going off 1 foot away
from your head twice feels like

660
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,600
you're going to wake up and the
sleep paralysis demon is going

661
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,000
to be like, whoa, hey, hey.
I didn't sign up for this.

662
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,280
I'm just here to scare you while
you sleep.

663
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,160
Whoa, whoa.
This is way above my pay grade.

664
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,520
I'm out.
And then he then then he will

665
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,240
let you wake up.
But then I'm always left

666
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:35,800
wondering, did Ronnie pose all
of the victims?

667
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,800
I don't really hear it.
I don't I haven't read or heard

668
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:43,520
that anyone has said that the
bodies were posed after the

669
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,520
murder.
Were they or were they all

670
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,000
laying like that?
And then here's another detail

671
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,240
that I've always wanted to know
and then I'll never know the

672
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,720
answer to.
Did the Lutz children, Kathy and

673
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:58,000
George's kids when they moved in
afterwards?

674
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,680
I know there's a lot of families
in this story.

675
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,440
Did the Lutz children actually
start sleeping on their stomachs

676
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,600
like the Defeo kids?
Because that's a really good

677
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,120
detail.
If that's not true, that is a

678
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:14,760
really good, really eerie,
morbid detail to include because

679
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,120
that totally creeps me out.
Here's another mystery though.

680
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,920
Here's another mystery specific
to the Lutz Haunting.

681
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,480
If you have not seen this photo,
it is the iconic Amityville

682
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,360
photo.
If you just, you just Google

683
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,560
Amityville photo, it's going to
show this to you.

684
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,200
And it's very, very creepy.
It still creeps me out to this

685
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,640
day, honestly.
And I remember when I was

686
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,520
younger and I first saw the
photo, I mean, I got full body

687
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,040
chills.
So it's a black and white photo.

688
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,440
It was taken during the
investigation that I mentioned

689
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,720
earlier.
And it's of like the second

690
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:50,440
floor landing move the third
floor.

691
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,120
It was outside of one of the
sun's rooms.

692
00:47:54,440 --> 00:48:00,440
And what you can see in this
photo is a small boy with

693
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,160
glowing eyes looking at the
camera, very chilling.

694
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,960
You might not see him at first.
My eyes go right to him because

695
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,880
I know he's there.
But you may left to look for a

696
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,680
second.
And then when he's there, wow,

697
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,200
you can't Unsee him.
Super creepy.

698
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,880
The glowing eyes, the kids, the
kid that's there when supposedly

699
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,840
there were no children there.
So how is there a kid in the

700
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,520
photo?
Of course it's it's suggested

701
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,520
that this is the son.
This is one of the Defeo

702
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:35,640
children that was murdered by by
Ronnie and he's just there

703
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,720
hanging out in the house.
Really sad, really creepy.

704
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,320
But is it really a ghost?
The glowing eyes is because it

705
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,320
was infrared photography, which
is very different now.

706
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,200
But back then, apparently if you
were doing the sort of

707
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,880
photography, eyes did glow in
the dark.

708
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,600
I don't there could be some sort
of flash that was involved as

709
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,360
well.
I'm not a photographer and I'm

710
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,960
definitely not a paranormal
investigator photographer, but

711
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,480
it has been suggested that it
was one of the paranormal

712
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,560
investigation like photography
assistants whose name was I

713
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:18,680
think Paul Barts with AZ at the
end, like Bratz, but like one

714
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,640
letter off Barts.
He was wearing a shirt that was

715
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,080
very similar to that pattern at
the time.

716
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,120
And oh, but it's it's, it's a
child.

717
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,960
Clearly, you may be thinking,
but when you're doing a lot of

718
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,400
paranormal investigation and
you're doing, you know,

719
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,480
photography, especially in the
70s when stuff was just a lot

720
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:42,040
clunkier and a lot more analogue
and not as quick and light and

721
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:47,000
easy to set up, you did have to
get down on the floor and run

722
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,240
cables.
I'm sure you still have to do

723
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:50,040
that today.
I don't want to make it sound

724
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,320
like paranormal investigation is
easy these days because you

725
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,040
don't see me out there doing it.
But back then, you know, he was

726
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,600
probably running lines or, I
don't know, fixing something.

727
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,960
And he was trying to stay out of
the way of the photography.

728
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,640
So here's the situation.
He's gotten down on the ground

729
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,120
to fix some cables.
He checks out in the hall to

730
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,640
make sure that coast is clear.
So he's on his knees and he just

731
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,040
kind of peers out of the door.
And that is basically what you

732
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,360
see now.
You know, the head does kind of

733
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,680
look like the head of a child.
So is that a man's, is that a

734
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,240
man's head?
Is that a child's head?

735
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:31,240
You know, someone else has
suggested, not just randomly in

736
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,000
2024, but during these
investigations someone else

737
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,440
suggested.
Well, actually nobody said

738
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,520
anything about this, but
someone's nephew was actually on

739
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,840
the scene during the
investigation.

740
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,920
And so obviously he got in a
photo.

741
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:54,200
Maybe, maybe, sure.
Or maybe that is actual

742
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,360
photographic evidence of a ghost
in a house.

743
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,600
Maybe.
But what I didn't tell you is

744
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,560
that it's Ed and Lorraine Warren
who were behind that photo.

745
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:10,560
So, oh, ah, you know, I mean, I
guess a broken watch is even

746
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,560
right twice a day.
So because you can't throw out

747
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,680
automatically everything that
they do, I guess that would be,

748
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:23,680
that would be sloppy to do that.
It would be reckless to throw

749
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,920
out all of the evidence they've
ever captured just because they

750
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:34,160
lie sometimes, just because Ed
was kind of a terrible person,

751
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,040
just because that happened
doesn't mean that they didn't

752
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,120
actually take photographs of
ghosts.

753
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,480
So really the the biggest
question has probably always

754
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:50,800
been, is this the house?
Did the house make Defeo murder

755
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,120
his family?
Did the house then try to make

756
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,120
George Lutz murder his family?
It seems like that might be

757
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:05,760
something really helpful for a
defense attorney to use during

758
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,360
future appeals for his client.
Doesn't that seem like

759
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,480
something?
I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but it

760
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,720
does sound like sounds.
It sounds just crazy enough to

761
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:20,400
be plausible, but maybe you can
blame the house.

762
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,720
It's the house's fault, your
Honor, that my client murdered

763
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:28,520
his entire family.
Well, there's no attorney in

764
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,520
this story so far, You may be
thinking to yourself.

765
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,240
Except, Oh no, hold on.
The reason that the Lutz's even

766
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,360
published a book in the 1st
place was that de Feo's

767
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,600
attorney, William Webber,
courted George and Kathy Lutz

768
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,240
with a book deal.
He wanted to write a book with

769
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,640
them using an author that he
knew.

770
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:56,120
He wanted them to be telling
their story of their situation

771
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,920
in this Amityville house that
happened, happened just

772
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:05,400
coincidentally to be the home
that his client, Ronnie Defeo

773
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,280
Junior, committed heinous
murders inside of.

774
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:16,080
So they sat around, they drunk a
few bottles of wine, which is

775
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,840
exactly how he explains it.
And they figured out this story

776
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,560
and that is the story that they
decided to put into a book.

777
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:31,080
However, the Lutz says they were
only getting like 12% each of

778
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,400
the profits of the book and they
would have to share the profits

779
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,360
of that book with Defeo.
So they weren't really into

780
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,840
that.
So they actually jumped ship,

781
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,880
found another author who they
would get a much more lucrative

782
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:52,160
sum from Jay Anson, and then had
him write the book instead,

783
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,240
which was obviously that was the
right thing to do.

784
00:53:56,240 --> 00:54:02,560
I mean, not ethically or
morally, but financially that

785
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,440
that that did definitely turn
out to be the right thing to do

786
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,200
for them.
And finally, my absolute

787
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,920
favorite piece of trivia from
The Amityville Horror.

788
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,160
Yes, it's about a cat.
How did you know?

789
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,440
Here's my favorite piece is
Jodie the pig, the scary, scary

790
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:26,040
pig demon that could grow really
big or like shrink really small

791
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,360
and floated around and watched
everybody and had beady glowing

792
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,640
red eyes and you could see it
looking in through windows.

793
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:39,240
Very scary.
However, did you know that there

794
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:43,840
was a neighborhood Persian cat?
A very large cat, one might say

795
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:49,120
a fat cat that the de Feo's
referred to as pig.

796
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:53,280
They called it pig.
That's what they called that

797
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:58,280
cat.
Which is rude A, but B kind of

798
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,360
explains where this idea of a
pig looking in through the

799
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,080
window came from.
But what about the red eyes?

800
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:11,000
Oh well, some Persian cats, some
colorings their eyes when

801
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,040
they're in the dark and light is
flashed on them, actually do

802
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:22,040
glow red in the dark, so I feel
like that explains Jodi pretty

803
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:27,400
neatly.
To be fair, I, I do love Jodi

804
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,080
because how scary is that?
Like, how scary is it?

805
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,720
It's, it's one of the scariest
things in the book, aside from

806
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:36,920
all the other scary things that
are sort of super scary.

807
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:42,720
Just Missy sitting there in her
room talking to Jodie, but

808
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:48,240
there's no one there and the
rocking chair is moving back and

809
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,640
forth.
Like Jodie's just chilling in

810
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,640
the rocking chair.
It's very scary.

811
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,240
It's very scary.
So even though Jodi kind of

812
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,760
traumatized me as a child, now
I'm embracing Jodi.

813
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,920
And I think Jodi is a boy.
I think Jodi is a he hem.

814
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,640
And I'm, I'm saying that having
not actually read the book, but

815
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,760
everyone that is talking about
Jodi is saying he, he, he.

816
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,240
So we're going to go with that.
But Jodi was a pig.

817
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,000
Jodi.
Jodi's name wasn't even Jodi.

818
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,160
Jodi was called pig.
Jodi was not a pig.

819
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,120
Dang, Jodi the pig was not a
pig.

820
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,480
Jodie the pig was a cat named
Pig.

821
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,520
It's like a boy named Sue, a cat
named Pig.

822
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,200
That's where we're at.
So that's my favorite piece of

823
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:38,600
trivia to explain that really
terrifying scene.

824
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,240
So scary.
But it was just a Kitty cat and

825
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:45,120
there wasn't a demon at all, she
said hopefully.

826
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:50,880
So in a nutshell, The Amityville
Horror, the book.

827
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:57,440
Very scary, but you can't really
prove one way or the other what

828
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,400
happened.
And it sounds kind of like if

829
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,480
anything did happen, it was
nowhere near the level of the

830
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,600
book or the movie.
Which is disappointing for

831
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,360
people that are looking for true
ghost stories because it used to

832
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,960
be called a true story, but no
longer.

833
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,000
However, the murders that
happened in the house, the

834
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,200
heinous actual horror that
happened in the house with the

835
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,560
De Feo's that did happen, the
rest of it?

836
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,280
Question marks, You tell me,
what do you think?

837
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:36,200
Did anything actually happen to
the Lutz's in the house on Ocean

838
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,160
Ave.
Considering if I haven't

839
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,880
mentioned that all of the people
who have lived in the house

840
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,400
after that point have never
experienced any sort of

841
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,880
supernatural happenings at all.
None of them have experienced

842
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,960
anything.
They've all been quite happy in

843
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:57,960
the house and have specifically
reported all good, which I

844
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,880
should mention.
Lorraine Warren credits to the

845
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,640
fact that they did an exorcism
on the House.

846
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,480
I would argue, though, that you
can't do an exorcism on the

847
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:11,080
House.
So I don't think houses can be

848
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,680
exercised.
Only people can.

849
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,520
Doesn't that feel right?
I mean, I'm no exorcist.

850
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,920
I don't know.
You tell me, what do you think?

851
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:24,560
Now I feel like.
We only.

852
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,240
Really scratched the evil
surface of The Amityville Horror

853
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,760
House here, but it's past my
bedtime and I'm about to turn

854
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,320
into a Jack O Lantern, so I'm
going to have to say goodbye.

855
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,280
But thank you so much for
joining me on this.

856
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:43,840
Very spooky Halloween episode.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

857
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,640
I am so pleased who have spent
Halloween with every single one

858
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,280
of you.
And don't worry if you're

859
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,120
listening to this and it's not
Halloween, Yes it is.

860
00:58:53,880 --> 00:59:10,720
Yes, it is Halloween, It is.
Thank you so much for joining me

861
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:16,760
for such a lovely spooky time.
Remember, you can feel afraid

862
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:21,280
and not be in danger.
If you've enjoyed yourself,

863
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,440
please follow the podcast so you
can get alerts when new episodes

864
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,200
come out.
And if you've really enjoyed

865
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,760
yourself, it would mean a lot to
me if you would tell a friend

866
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:36,080
about the podcast and follow me
on Instagram at Madam

867
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,800
Strangeways or leave me a rating
or review on Spotify or Apple

868
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,160
Podcasts.
Or I mean, just send me an

869
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,640
e-mail at
madamstrangeways@gmail.com to

870
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,360
just say hello.
I'd appreciate it.

871
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,000
Madam Strangeways is produced
and narrated by me.

872
00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:02,560
Madam Strangeways theme music is
by marina.ryan@marinamakes.co.

873
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:09,400
You can submit your own strange
story at madamstrangeways.com or

874
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,320
send in your thoughts or
theories on the stories in this

875
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,920
episode to
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

876
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,120
Thank you for listening.
Until next time.

877
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,840
And a door burst off of its
hinges.

878
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,480
Hinges what?