Enfield Poltergeist: The True Story Behind The Conjuring 2 | The Warrens' Paranormal Case Revealed | Ep #35

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Oh, I didn't hear you come in.
What's that?

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You've got a true strange story
of the unexplained you'd like to

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hear narrated on the show.
e-mail it to me,

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madamstrangeways@gmail.com.
Welcome strangers, strange

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cetera, stranger Reno's and
stranger Rangers.

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Is that something?
No, OK.

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Welcome to Madam Strange Ways,
where I usually narrate your

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true strange stories of the
unexplained and share my strange

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thoughts and observations while
dragging you down strange rabbit

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holes kicking and screaming.
You're the one kicking and

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screaming.
I'm doing the dragging.

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This, however, is a deep dive
episode about the allegedly true

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case files of Ed and Lorraine
Warren, specifically the story

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of the Enfield Poltergeist.
I'll still drag you down a slew

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of strange rabbit holes though.
Fear not.

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But first, a strange shout out
to my Patreon patrons TJ Hotter,

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G Man Music, Ted, Keith, and
Tori.

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Thank you so much to my Feral
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And now on to the true strange
story of the Enfield Poltergeist

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here on Madam Strange Ways.
The Enfield Poltergeist On

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Thursday the 1st of September at
approximately 1 AMI was on duty

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in my capacity as a policewoman
when I received a radio message

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to 284 Green St.
Enfield.

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I went to this address where I
found a number of people

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standing in the living room.
I was told by the occupier of

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the house that strange things
have been happening during the

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last few hours and that they
believed the house was haunted.

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Myself and another police
constable entered the living

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room of the house and the
occupier turned off the lights.

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Almost immediately I heard the
sound of knocking on the wall

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that backs on to the next door
neighbour's house.

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There were 4 distinct taps on
the wall and then silence.

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About two minutes later I heard
more tapping, but this time it

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was coming from a different
wall.

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Again, it was a distinctive peel
of four taps.

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The police constable and the
neighbors checked the walls,

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attic and pipes but could find
nothing to explain the

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knockings.
The police constable and the

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neighbors all went into the
kitchen to check the

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refrigerator, pipes, etcetera,
leaving myself and the family in

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the living room.
The lights in the living room

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were switched off again and
within a few minutes the eldest

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son pointed to a chair which was
standing next to the sofa.

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I looked at the chair and
noticed that it was wobbling

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slightly from side to side.
I then saw the chair slide

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across the floor towards the
kitchen wall.

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It moved approximately 3 to 4
feet and then came to rest.

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At no time did it appear to
leave the floor.

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I checked the chair but could
find nothing to explain how it

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had moved.
The lights were switched back

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on.
Nothing else happened that

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night.
Although we have later reports

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of disturbances at this address.
WPC Carolyn Heaps didn't know

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the half of it.
In the days following her visit

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to Green Street, the unexplained
activity escalated.

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Marbles and Lego bricks
catapulted around the room as if

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launched by invisible
trebuchets.

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The knockings continued.
The settee in the living room

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was upended.
Missus Hodgson, the single

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mother who lived there with her
four children, called a local

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priest who blessed the home.
And yet the activity only

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intensified.
The Hodgson family was on edge

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all hours of the day and night,
with the crashing and chaos

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always worst.
At bedtime, out of desperation,

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the Daily Mirror was called out.
The reporter and photographer

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were so shocked by the flying
objects and furniture moving

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that they wasted no time calling
the Society for Psychical

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Research, the world's oldest
organization dedicated to

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studying claims of psychic and
paranormal phenomena.

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Morris Gross was sent to
investigate immediately.

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He was convinced this was no
hoax.

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He explained to the family that
this was what was called a

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poltergeist, something none of
the family had ever heard of

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before.
Shortly after, another SBR

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investigator, Guy Lyon Playfair,
joined the investigation.

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The presence of the two men
seemed to only provoke the

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poltergeist.
It was not happy.

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Phantom faces were seen through
the windows.

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The knocking sounds ramped up
until they shook the whole

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house.
The settee that had been thrown

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prior began to levitate off the
floor.

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Janet, the second oldest child,
was bodily ejected from her bed

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night after night.
Other times she would be

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forcibly thrown through the air,
terrifying the 11 year old girl.

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Even more terrifying, multiple
curtains in the home began to

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wrap themselves around her neck
to strangle her.

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The furniture in the home may
have been to blame.

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Mr. Hodgson, before leaving his
family, had bought some pieces

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of furniture that had belonged
to a man who had, after killing

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his young daughter, taken his
own life.

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Afraid it was possessed by a
harmful spirit, they took all of

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the offending furniture and
decor and burned it in the back

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garden.
It didn't help the knocking in

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the home seemed to become
sentient.

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Gross would ask it questions and
it would answer.

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One knock for No2, knocks for
yes.

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From there it escalated again.
The poltergeist began to speak

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in a low, gruff voice.
That voice came primarily from

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Janet, though sometimes her
older sister Margaret.

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They said that when the voice
spoke, it felt like it was

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coming from the back of their
necks and that they had no

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control over what the voice
said.

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The voice was rude and vulgar
and sounded nothing at all like

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how the girls normally spoke.
The.

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Spirit claimed to have been a
man named Bill Wilkins when he

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was alive.
He claimed he had lived in their

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house on Green Street and was
there looking for his wife.

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Then he told the frightened
family.

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Just before I died, I went
blind.

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Then I had an hemorrhage and I
fell asleep and I died in the

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chair in the corner downstairs.
As it turned out, the

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poltergeist had been right.
Bill Wilkins lived and died at

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284 Green St.
Janet began to fall into trances

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and had fits.
She drew violent artwork.

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She shrieked and screamed
threats of death as multiple

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grown men had to hold her down.
Missus Hodgson reported that a

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knife had gone missing from the
kitchen, and she was

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understandably worried that
Janet had taken it.

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The family suffered sleepless
nights in constant states of

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hyper vigilance, with the only
reprieve being a short family

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vacation and when Janet was sent
to a psychiatric hospital for

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testing and observation.
Though the activity nearly

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stopped in her absence, it
picked up again when she

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returned to Green Street.
The poltergeist was not yet

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through with her.
It seemed a Swedish medium who

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had attempted to cleanse the
house on a prior visit returned

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to try again nearly a year after
everything started.

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He sat in Janet and Margaret's
bedroom and spoke to the spirit

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haunting the house that time.
It listened.

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But some things never really
leave you.

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The story of the poltergeist
that ruled the Hodgson's lives

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for so long would follow the
family forever.

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Welcome to the latest deep dive
episode about the true case

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files of Ed and Lorraine Warren.
This is the fourth episode in

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that series, and though for some
reason I have accidentally

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decided to do the cases
alphabetically instead of

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chronologically, I do recommend
listening to the other episodes

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if you're interested in tasty
little morsels about the

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Warrens, which I have sprinkled
throughout.

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So it starts with Amityville,
then Annabelle, then The

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Conjuring One AKA the Perrin
family, and now we're on to The

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Conjuring 2.
The Enfield Poltergeist.

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As the theme of this podcast is
scaring you while also reminding

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you that you can feel afraid and
not be in danger, revealing the

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true aspects of the Warrants
case is a perfect fit.

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I talk about it in a little more
depth in the Annabelle episode,

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but in a nutshell, I have a
personal grievance with the

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Warrens even though I never met
them directly.

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OK, it's fine.
I can say you know what?

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I don't need to meet someone to
not like them.

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So when I was a wee Madam
growing up in the mumble mumble

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mumble, my mother got caught up
in the fear mongering of the

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ripples left by the Satanic
Panic.

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So as a child with undiagnosed
complex PTSD and intense anxiety

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and mild OCD, the last thing
that my strange little brain

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needed was for my mother, an
authority figure, telling me

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that demons existed and that I
needed to be constantly vigilant

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against their satanic forces.
She wasn't doing it maliciously.

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All right, I understand.
I get it.

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Nobody's PO.
But he's nerfict.

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I understand she wasn't doing it
maliciously, she thought she was

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protecting my soul, but as
questionably well intended as

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she may have been, it still cost
a lot of damage that I am still

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now having to undo and figure
out.

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So I have to ask myself if this
is all just some spooky

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butterfly effect.
I guess.

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Would a spooky butterfly be like
a Death's Head moth?

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All right, so I have to ask
myself if this is all some

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Death's head moth effect.
If the Warrens hadn't found

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their niche by way of using
haunted houses as a gimmick to

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sell people paintings to get
their foot in the door, would my

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Catholic raised mother have ever
been exposed to crazy demon

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warfare rhetoric in the 1st
place?

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Maybe.
I mean there were a lot of

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cultural bits and bobs that fed
into the Satanic panic.

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Obviously it wasn't just the
Warrens.

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But as a result there's very
little I hate more than fear

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mongering, especially spiritual
and or paranormal fear

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mongering, which was the real
product.

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Ed and Lorraine Warren peddled
fear mongering.

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That being said, right up top, I
do want to say that you may have

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noticed in the story that I just
read that the Warrens are not

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really in this story.
They're really only in it for a

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tiny blip they visited Enfield
for like.

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Between a day and four days
split between 1978 and then

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again in 1979 after the activity
had stopped and the Warrens

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visits.
Were not only uninvited, but

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they were so a noteworthy that,
at least prior to the press

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junket for The Conjuring 2, none
of the Hodgkins even recalled

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meeting them.
So it's not Ed and Lorraine at

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the focus of this story, as The
Conjuring 2 would leave you to

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believe, but actually the
Hodgson family and the two

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psychical researchers who were
ultimately responsible for

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catapulting this story to what
has become today.

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The Warrens weren't really
involved.

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And and though they weren't
actually all that involved in

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this story, Ed still somehow
manages to come off like a

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greedy con man, as you'll see.
I thought though, that this

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would be a perfect opportunity
to show you that you don't

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actually need to have bad
intentions to do harm,

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especially when it comes to the
supernatural or paranormal.

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Ed and Lorraine were always
after fame and fortune,

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regardless of what their
apologists will claim, and they

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employed fear mongering and
phlegm flammery, which is a

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technical term to get it.
So as you'll hear, the Warrens

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do try to sink their weird
little phlegm flammy claws into

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the case, but Ed and Lorraine's
charm they don't seem to work.

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Doesn't seem to work.
The charm does not seem to work

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very well in foggy London town.
But I will say I can't.

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I could totally picture this odd
Couple style brick com starring

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Morris Gross, the psychical
researcher as the laced up

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Englishman and Ed Warren as the
loud slobbish oddball American.

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I got to say I would watch it.
I would watch it.

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I bet they'd have some good
monster of the week stories.

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But I think Ed Warren saw the
Enfield case for what it truly

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was.
Game recognizes game and all

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that.
Now I'm not OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.

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I'm not saying that poltergeists
definitely don't exist.

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That is not what I'm saying.
However, it is my personal

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opinion that that that it's my
personal opinion that the

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00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,920
Enfield case is not the ironclad
case that so many make it out to

227
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,520
me.
I would love to hear your

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00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,040
thoughts, by the way, if you had
thoughts going into the episode,

229
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,079
I'd like to hear them.
And if they're any different

230
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,760
from the thoughts you had after
the episode, wow, I would

231
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,440
definitely really like to hear
from them.

232
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,040
Hear from you.
I should say. e-mail me

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00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,640
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.
Now.

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00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:21,720
The Enfield poltergeist being
the most well documented account

235
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,119
of paranormal activity ever,
particularly in British history.

236
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,040
There's such an overwhelming
amount of claims in this story,

237
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,280
like truly overwhelming
information overload, etcetera.

238
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:41,040
There is so much stuff happening
in this story that this would

239
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,760
have to be a 42 part episode
series.

240
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,640
This would have to be a 42 part
series if I wanted to cover

241
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,920
everything, which I do, but I'm
not going to because you know

242
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,000
what?
I'm no Dan Carlin, or am I?

243
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,480
Maybe I am.
Maybe I am a spooky Dan Carlin.

244
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,680
I don't think so though.
You know what though?

245
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,840
If you want to hear more, if you
want to hear even more detail

246
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,240
about the Enfield case then you
hear in this episode, let me

247
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:11,880
know.
Madam Strange.

248
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,000
We set gmail.com.
In the meantime, however, I will

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00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,800
just keep it to this one single
episode.

250
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:22,000
However, unfortunately, as much
as it pains me, that means that

251
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,760
I can't cover every single
aspect of this story, even some

252
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:27,920
of the ones that I really wanted
to.

253
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,480
They're left on the cutting room
floor.

254
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,320
It pains me.
So before we get to the good

255
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:38,480
stuff, let's take a peek at the
two strange men at the forefront

256
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,680
of this case who practically
moved into the Hodgson home,

257
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,440
which is weird.
OK, it's weird.

258
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,680
I understand it's in the pursuit
of of science and psychical

259
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,280
etcetera, but it's weird.
All right, so Morris Gross and

260
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,320
Morris is actually spelled
Maurice, but every single person

261
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,080
that talks about him says
Morris.

262
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,160
So I'm going to say Morris,
Morris Gross and Guy Lyon

263
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,200
Playfair, which is such a cool
name.

264
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,440
I would not have expected him to
be a psychical researcher

265
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,120
though.
All right, so they are both

266
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,040
members of the Society for
Psychical Research in London.

267
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,880
And can I just say I love
psychical?

268
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,920
What a fun word.
Fun to say, fun to type.

269
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,960
Sounds very smart.
Like which would you rather be a

270
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,040
member of the Society for
Psychic Research or the Society

271
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,040
for Psychical Research?
Obviously the latter, obviously

272
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,200
the latter.
So good job naming that in 1880

273
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,880
something when that was founded.
Good job, guys.

274
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,920
OK, so back to these two.
Morris, Gross, Guyline,

275
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,640
Playfair, otherwise known.
You'll hear me just refer to

276
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,360
them for the rest of the episode
as Gross and Playfair.

277
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,520
So unlike Ed Warren, Gross and
Playfair weren't angling to have

278
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,640
their stories made into made for
TV movies, let alone Hollywood

279
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,440
films.
Well.

280
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,480
OK, hold on.
Playfair had actually already

281
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,240
published at least two books
about the paranormal prior to

282
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:18,200
1977, and he did go on to write
an entire book about the Enfield

283
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,080
story afterwards that would
later in 2015 get turned into a

284
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:27,000
British six part miniseries.
So maybe it's not conjuring too

285
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,680
tight money, but that ain't
nothing.

286
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,640
OK, so for Playfair, while I
can't say that he was entirely

287
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,120
there out of the goodness of his
heart, he also didn't completely

288
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,160
fabricate stories just to sell
books like some people.

289
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,360
I mean, Ed Warren, if that
wasn't clear.

290
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,520
Whereas Gross, on the other
hand, was already well off.

291
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,560
He was a military man.
He was actually at Dunkirk.

292
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,280
He was literally at Dunkirk.
So he was a military man turned

293
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,120
confectioner turned inventor
turned paranormal investigator,

294
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:06,040
which really that's the ideal
career path for a paranormal

295
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,200
investigator.
That's just how I feel.

296
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,360
He made a good living filing
mechanical patents and even

297
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:14,920
founded his own design and
engineering consultancy

298
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,760
business.
So he was doing well.

299
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,360
He even drove a showy sports car
a row.

300
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,160
A red.
A red E type roadster.

301
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,280
I was going to say Rd.
A Rd.

302
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,320
E type redster is, I think what
I was trying to say, a red E

303
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,600
type roadster.
Which doesn't really mean

304
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,080
anything to me, but I bet it
means something to someone.

305
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,720
Also, it sounds fancy and
expensive, which it was both.

306
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,880
Unlike the Warrens, though,
Gross wasn't chasing fame, and

307
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:50,120
he wasn't trying to fool anyone
except maybe himself.

308
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,360
You'll find out in a second.
Keep listening.

309
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,280
And while I think that he was
ultimately successful in in

310
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,760
fooling himself, this wasn't a
victimless crime.

311
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,640
Unfortunately so.
Gross and Playfair recorded

312
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,760
around 140 hours of tape
recordings between 1977 and

313
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:18,880
1978, with 180 total visits to
the house on Green Street and 25

314
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:24,280
all night vigils AKA sleepovers,
which puts the combined

315
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,880
investigation time at a minimum
of 1000 hours.

316
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,600
These two men were constantly
monitoring the family, making

317
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,440
audio recordings, taking
pictures, occasionally recording

318
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,840
video, though never when
anything unexplained happened.

319
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,800
Which is interesting.
The Hodgson kids must have

320
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,560
started to see Gross and maybe
even play fair as father

321
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,160
figures, authority figures,
considering that their own

322
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,400
father was an absent piece of
shit and apparently abusive,

323
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,880
like I said, a piece of shit
when the father had actually

324
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,920
been there.
Unfortunately for the Hodgson

325
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:06,560
kids, Gross's affection was also
conditional, specifically

326
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,560
conditional upon the quality of
the paranormal hijinks.

327
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,320
In multiple recordings, you can
hear him angrily berate Janet

328
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,800
and Margaret when the
poltergeist activity doesn't go

329
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,240
exactly to plan, or when the
girls are acting like, oh, I

330
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,160
don't know, children.
And if the poltergeist activity

331
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:31,440
were to stop, Gross and Playfair
would leave, just like the

332
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,080
children's father had.
But Gross didn't want to leave

333
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,840
any more than he wanted to
consider the whole thing a hoax.

334
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,200
It's why you see him time and
time again, time and time again,

335
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,680
dismiss what should have been
damning evidence of trickery as

336
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,880
some quirk of the poltergeist's
abilities to control Janet.

337
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:59,560
Or actually, in some cases, what
he sees that should be evidence

338
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,320
of a hoax actually somehow
solidifies his belief that it's

339
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,040
not a hoax.
It's weird, but the man, I'm

340
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,960
telling you, human brains very
powerful.

341
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,200
So OK, there's the sunk cost
fallacy with the situation,

342
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,360
sure, where you know he's
already put this much time and

343
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:23,360
effort into something.
He doesn't want it to not be

344
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,400
true.
He needs it to be true.

345
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,960
I mean, also think about it like
his reputation is tied to it.

346
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,920
His future with the SPR, the
Society for Psychical Research,

347
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,960
like that's obviously tied to it
as well.

348
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,640
You don't want to have egg on
your face when it comes to

349
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,120
poltergeists.
And, and maybe there was a point

350
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,640
in which he probably should have
just cut his losses.

351
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,200
But again, some cost fallacy.
It makes it really difficult to

352
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,000
do that.
Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe,

353
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,240
maybe.
That's all it is.

354
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,480
Sure.
Except with Gross, it's

355
00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:00,840
definitely more than that.
C Gross only took up an interest

356
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,520
in paranormal investigating
after the tragic loss of his

357
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,360
daughter at the age of 22 in a
motorcycle accident.

358
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,640
Her name was also,
coincidentally, Janet.

359
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:21,240
In August of 1976, within a
month of his daughter Janet's

360
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,640
death, Gross joined both the
Society for Psychical Research

361
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,720
and the Ghost Club.
Which side note, the Ghost Club

362
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,840
also solid name.
Sounds like a great time.

363
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,120
Honestly.
But he wasn't having a great

364
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,840
time because he was obviously
grieving for his daughter.

365
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,520
He also became convinced, along
with some of his other family

366
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,240
members, that his daughter Janet
was trying to contact him and

367
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,520
send him a message from beyond
the grave.

368
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,360
And let's not forget, Gross is
an engineer by trade.

369
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,120
He's a problem solver.
And I'm sure I know, having done

370
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:01,920
this research, that he was like
a dog with a bone.

371
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,160
But he was mourning.
He was definitely in mourning.

372
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,240
And he was absolutely,
definitely not allowing himself

373
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,840
to actually mourn.
And that never ends well.

374
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,240
Gross did insist, right up until
his death, that losing his

375
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,200
daughter Janet didn't in any way
cloud his judgement.

376
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,720
But I don't know.
I mean, I don't know about that.

377
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,240
If Gross and Playfair had just
packed up and left after a few

378
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,440
days of monitoring the
poltergeist, would the supposed

379
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,560
poltergeist activity have just
died down on its own?

380
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,960
I mean, we'll never know.
But if you think about this time

381
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,400
and time again, media attention
of a poltergeist case ends up

382
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,120
escalating the alleged activity,
regardless of whether it's due

383
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:59,080
to spirit energy feeding off the
attention of all of the humans

384
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,400
watching or because it just
emboldens the children or people

385
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,360
behind the activity.
Now, I do want to make clear

386
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,040
because it OK, look, it's very
important to me that y'all

387
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,160
understand that I don't think
that Janet or Margaret are con

388
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,960
artists or hucksters or flim
flam mams.

389
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,120
I don't think that.
I don't think they did anything

390
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,560
out of malice.
I think they were just kids

391
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,320
having a really difficult time.
And the problem is actually the

392
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,560
adults in the case that were
whipping everything up into the

393
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,800
frenzy that it became.
None of the Hodgson's, not even

394
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,800
Janet, who's like the star of
the show.

395
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,880
Not even Janet has gotten rich
off of the Enfield Poltergeist

396
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,560
fame.
And unlike Andrea Perrin, one of

397
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,240
the children in the Perrin
family hunting, AKA The

398
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,680
Conjuring One True story, none
of the Hodgson's siblings ever

399
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,440
wrote a trilogy book series, and
definitely none of them took

400
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,560
said trilogy on the paranormal
convention circuit, again,

401
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,840
unlike Andrea Perrin.
But I will say Janet, Margaret

402
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,480
and Billy were credited as
consultants on The Conjuring 2

403
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,240
film.
And Janet and Margaret featured

404
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,880
in the Apple Plus documentary
with Billy's name mentioned of

405
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,080
the credits as well.
So they must have gotten some

406
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,360
compensation.
But you know what?

407
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:25,480
Good for them, good for them for
all that for for all that

408
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,400
they've had to put up with for
48 years at the time of this

409
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,960
recording.
I think they've earned it,

410
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,720
Especially Janet.
Right.

411
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,840
So here we go.
We will talk about poltergeists,

412
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,760
parakeets, psychical research.
OK, that was in a written

413
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,040
alliteration because the P is
silent.

414
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,800
But on paper it looks like a
great, a great alliteration.

415
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,200
But when I say it out loud, it
doesn't really translate.

416
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,480
It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

417
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,760
And of course we will talk about
Bill.

418
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,240
But first here is a non
exhaustive list of sources that

419
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,240
I used for the episode.
First, we've got This House is

420
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,680
Haunted by Guy Lion Playfair.
There is ES PS Sears and

421
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,520
Psychics by Melbourne
Christopher, an American

422
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,320
illusionist and president of the
Society of American Magicians,

423
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:20,000
which reminds me of Poof, which
Joe Bluth was a member of before

424
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,360
he got kicked out.
The Enfield Poltergeist tapes, a

425
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,080
book by Melvin Willen Melvin
Willen being the custodian of

426
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880
the Enfield Poltergeist tapes in
the wake of the death of Morris

427
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,560
Gross and guideline play fair.
There is also of course my

428
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,760
favorite book, the exorcist
effect by Eric Harrelson and

429
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,240
Joseph Laycock.
Shout out love it.

430
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,280
Of course the Enfield
poltergeist documentary on Apple

431
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,520
+2023 a slew of I say slew a
lot.

432
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,320
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.

433
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,600
It's there.
I it's just, it's fine, don't

434
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,960
worry about it.
A bunch of BBC and like UK

435
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,760
recordings between 1977 and
1976.

436
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,920
So many sources.
I'll try to link them all in the

437
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,520
show notes.
All right then before that

438
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,200
sorted, let's crack on.
What even is a poltergeist

439
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,360
anyway?
OK, firstly and most

440
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,280
importantly, let's talk about
it.

441
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,200
What is a poltergeist?
Poltergeists and humans go way

442
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:30,880
back, like 800 BCE, which is
basically in Homer's The

443
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,600
Odyssey.
Apparently there's a reference

444
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,840
to a poltergeist in the Odyssey.
However, the first account of

445
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,480
what sounds like our modern day
understanding of a poltergeist

446
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:46,440
was actually an 800 AD ish in
Germany, which I'm just not

447
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,320
realizing must be why Germans
are the ones who got to name the

448
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560
poltergeist.
Because Polterne is German for

449
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,720
noisy and Geist is ghost.
Hence noisy ghost or

450
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,240
poltergeist.
Also Speaking of Geist, now that

451
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,320
I'm breaking this out into two
words, Geist.

452
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,880
OK, also in the Geist is also in
zeitgeist.

453
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,160
So what is zeitgeist?
Let's find out what is Zeit?

454
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,520
Something Geist.
Zeit Ghost.

455
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,720
I don't know what Zeit means.
OK, Google.

456
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,520
What is Zeit in German?
Zeit means time in German.

457
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,000
Time, time ghost.
OK, that's kind of fun.

458
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,240
And I love these weird little
German words.

459
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,800
Thank you, Germany, for these
strange words.

460
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,640
Time ghost.
Anyway, Poltergeist.

461
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,120
So another word for poltergeist
that fell out of favor, but I

462
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,240
think that we should consider
bringing back in favor is

463
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,160
rumpelgeist, meaning rattling
ghost instead of just noisy

464
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,160
ghost.
But I actually read that Germans

465
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,520
don't even use the term
poltergeist or rumpelgeist when

466
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,960
they're talking about
poltergeists and goats in

467
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,840
general, and instead they just
say spook.

468
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,760
Spook.
Is that right?

469
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,680
Are you German?
Do you know?

470
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,880
e-mail me
madamstrangeways@gmail.com let

471
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,160
me know what word you use to
explain to poltergeist.

472
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,200
Anyway, etymology aside,
poltergeists aren't generally

473
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:23,440
considered to be ghosts at all.
One theory by Nandor Fodor of

474
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:29,880
Jeff the Talking Mongoose fame,
not Nandor de la Rentes fame, is

475
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,360
that poltergeists are
effectively repressed energy.

476
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,200
I'm just going to read this
verbatim from the wiki.

477
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,920
Poltergeists are quote UN quote
external manifestations of

478
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,720
conflicts within the
subconscious mind rather than

479
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,200
autonomous entities with minds
of their own.

480
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,800
OK, that's cool.
And I definitely understood

481
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,680
everything that was just said.
External manifestations of

482
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,360
conflicts within the
subconscious mind rather than an

483
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,440
autonomous entity.
OK, without a mind of their OK,

484
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,200
that's the I'm with you.
I'm with you Nandor.

485
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,680
I was meeting with you, Nandor.
Fucking guy.

486
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,240
Probably the most common theory
about poltergeists, though, is

487
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,200
that although poltergeists
aren't spirits themselves, they

488
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,320
are a sort of spiritual energy
that is unknowingly manipulated

489
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:27,600
by a person, usually a child or
a teenager, and usually one

490
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,560
around puberty.
It's especially common for

491
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,560
people to say that girls who are
starting their periods for the

492
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,280
first time are especially
attractive to poltergeists,

493
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,240
which is just kind of weird and
gross.

494
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,160
And really, when you say it out
loud the way that I just did, I

495
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,040
hope that it does sound weird
and gross because it feels weird

496
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,080
and gross.
Not the period part.

497
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,720
That's not gross.
It's almost like a lot of men,

498
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,560
especially you're the types that
are going to go into psychical

499
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,760
research, are scared of women's
bodies.

500
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,400
Go figure.
All right.

501
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,960
But look, in a nutshell again,
OK, how many nutshells do we

502
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,800
have?
A lot of them.

503
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,880
But the point is, the theory is
that during the time of a

504
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,760
child's life in which they are
going through puberty, things

505
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,360
are really stressful and they're
feeling a lot of feelings that

506
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,239
they've never felt before,
including a special kind of

507
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,600
impotent psychokinetic rage.
And they're somehow able to

508
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:25,159
inadvertently channel this
impotent psychokinetic rage

509
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,960
without realizing that they're
doing it.

510
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,360
Psychokinesis being, of course,
the ability to control and

511
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,679
manipulate or move things purely
with your mind.

512
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,920
Think Jean Grey or Ness from
Earthbound or Smash Brothers

513
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,880
when he's like BK Thunder.
That's him.

514
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040
He's using psychokinesis when
he's doing that.

515
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,120
So the standard fare for a
poltergeist is what we heard in

516
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,520
the Enfield story.
So it starts off with knocking,

517
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,080
things get knocked over, then
things start flying around,

518
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,080
fires break out, water appears
from thin air, but somehow never

519
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,200
directly over the fires that get
started, and people occasionally

520
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,320
levitate.
Some famous poltergeist cases

521
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,800
you may have heard of are the
Black Monk of Pontefract, Borley

522
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,480
Rectory, Jeff the Talking
Mongoose.

523
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:19,000
Note that's spelled GEF, which
might be the least ridiculous

524
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,760
thing in that story.
Also the Bell Witch of Tennessee

525
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,120
and I had to include this.
As soon as I read this story I

526
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,680
had to include it.
Sorry.

527
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,440
It's just I'm I'm apparently I'm
12, I'm a 12 year old boy

528
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:38,520
because I had to include the
Cock Lane ghost AKA the Fanny

529
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,120
scratcher which I am not making
up.

530
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,720
It's an actual thing.
You can Google it maybe with

531
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,600
safe search on, but it's not,
it's not X-rated.

532
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,160
That's just the name of the
street.

533
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,000
All right.
Anyway, there are countless

534
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,760
poltergeist stories.
Countless truly.

535
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,640
There are so many.
I mean, there's even you may

536
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,880
have heard of the movie
creatively titled Poltergeist,

537
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,200
which is based loosely ish on
the poltergeist case of the

538
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,520
Hermann family.
No relation to Pee Wee, but the

539
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,760
movie did come out not long
after Enfield, so it very well

540
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,600
could have influenced part of
the movie.

541
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,800
What a poltergeist definitely
isn't, however, is the ghost of

542
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,240
a dead man who used to live in
the council house the Hodgesons

543
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,880
lived in.
Janet actually started out

544
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,120
trying to excitedly explain the
paranormal activity as the ghost

545
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,720
of a young girl who had lived
near the family before being

546
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:37,200
murdered by her own father.
And for a while, everyone

547
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,560
involved with the case kept
referring to the poltergeist as

548
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,600
a female spirit until eventually
it switched between about, I

549
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,840
mean, at least a dozen different
names.

550
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,960
And then finally, they landed on
Bill Wilkins, which is not how

551
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,920
poltergeists work.
So listen, look, if you have a

552
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,640
poltergeist, you can name your
poltergeist.

553
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,320
That's fine.
I'm not saying you can't name

554
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,680
your poltergeist.
But I feel like poltergeists are

555
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,720
kind of like stray cats.
So you can name a stray cat,

556
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,200
Misses Meow Meow, but when she
saunters by the house next door,

557
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,480
they don't know that her name is
Misses Meow Meow because she's a

558
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,240
stray cat.
So they call her Mr.

559
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:18,280
Mustophiles, and they have no
idea that she has a different

560
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,440
name.
That's how I that's how I feel.

561
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,280
Cats and poltergeists are just
little agents of chaos.

562
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,520
And you can really just name
them whatever you want, but that

563
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,960
doesn't mean that they have a
name.

564
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,640
OK, I know this isn't a perfect
analogy.

565
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,000
I just, you know, me.
I love cats.

566
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,680
The point is, the spirit of Bill
Wilkins is not a poltergeist.

567
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,200
So which is it?
Is it a poltergeist or is it a

568
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,720
ghost?
Interesting.

569
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,800
Next, I want to give some
cultural and historical context

570
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,000
to kind of anchor us in the
story and really make sure that

571
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,280
we all understand everything
that is happening in the world

572
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,520
in 1977 while this is all
happening.

573
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,600
So the year is 1977.
Queen Elizabeth the Second has

574
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,440
been Queen for 25 years, which
means celebrating her Silver

575
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,920
Jubilee, which is apparently a
super big deal.

576
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Across the pond, The Clash
releases their self-titled debut

577
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,800
album and the Sex Pistols
released their album Never Mind

578
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,000
The Bollocks, which was so cool
that it was banned by the BBC

579
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,680
and so many other radio stations
to the point that it was deemed

580
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,600
the most heavily censored record
in British history.

581
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,560
Fleetwood Mac releases their
Rumors album, Queen releases We

582
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,640
Are the Champions, and in
hopefully less exciting news,

583
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,760
serial killer Peter Sutcliffe,
AKA the Yorkshire Ripper, is

584
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,120
still active and at large
murdering women.

585
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,640
The first Star Wars film comes
out.

586
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:55,000
Bell bottoms are beginning to
disappear, though.

587
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,880
Try telling that to Ed Warren.
Soon.

588
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,120
Shoulder pads and the first
pairs of designer jeans will

589
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,120
take their place.
For the first time, there are

590
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,400
more color TV's in use in the UK
than black and white TV's.

591
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,720
There's only three channels on
those televisions, by the way.

592
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:19,880
BBC One, BBC Two and Nope, not
BBC Three, ITV.

593
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,840
In August, just a month or so
before the Enfield Haunting

594
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,520
began, a horror anthology TV
show called Supernatural aired

595
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:35,400
its final episode in my in my
script I have parentheses

596
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,480
Supernatural reference here,
which I definitely did not

597
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,640
prepare.
Sammy, carry on my way.

598
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,400
OK, continuing.
We're moving on.

599
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,560
That's unrelated.
Listen here we go all show on

600
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,320
TV.
Uri Geller, the famous

601
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,880
self-proclaimed psychic, has
been bending spoons with his

602
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,680
mind for years.
And just three years earlier, in

603
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:06,360
1974, The Exorcist film was
released and heavily protested

604
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,320
across the UK by the nationwide
Festival of Light, a Christian

605
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,400
public Action Group.
And the movie was even banned

606
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,320
from some parts of Great Britain
altogether just one year

607
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,760
earlier, in 1976.
Morris Gross's daughter dies in

608
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,880
a motorcycle accident and that
same month he joins the SPR and

609
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,200
the Ghost Club.
Three years earlier, again in

610
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,560
1974, Mr. Hodgson leaves his
wife and moves out, leaving

611
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,400
Peggy Hodgson to raise her four
children alone.

612
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:45,320
And also in 1974, the eldest
Hodgson boy, Johnny, is sent to

613
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,960
a boarding school for
maladjusted boys for reasons

614
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,680
unknown.
But residential schools like

615
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,880
that had become more and more
common in the 70s.

616
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,480
The.
Hodgson family lived at 284

617
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,160
Green St. a council house in
Brimsdowne, Enfield, London,

618
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,760
England.
They had lived there for 13

619
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,640
years without any activity and
the council house had been built

620
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,160
in the 1920s or 30s.
What is a council house, you

621
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,880
say?
Is that right?

622
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,880
Did I hear you right?
Did I hear you just ask what a

623
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,720
council house is?
Well, that info dumb will come

624
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:23,360
later, but in yet another
nutshell, council houses or

625
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,880
council estates are public
housing or social housing built

626
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,240
and managed by local government,
funded by the central

627
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,920
government, for working class
families, the ill or the

628
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,160
disabled.
OK, there's a small info dump.

629
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,280
You know what?
We're just going to get out of

630
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,440
the way right now.
We're going to get out of the

631
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,760
way right now because I have
heard some Americans compare

632
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,880
council houses to Section 8
housing in America, which really

633
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,160
isn't true.
Section 8 allows tenants to

634
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,520
choose their own housing within
the price private rental market

635
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,400
because America, whereas council
house tenants reside in

636
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,440
government owned properties that
are built explicitly for the

637
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,880
purpose of public housing.
And though this story happens in

638
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:05,560
1977, when you look to 1981 in
three households in England and

639
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,360
Wales lived in council houses
and actually 50% of houses in

640
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,160
Scotland lived in council
houses.

641
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,520
So at the time it was extremely
common for a family, especially

642
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,120
one with a single mother, to
live in a council house.

643
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:22,040
Even comparing council houses to
the projects in America isn't

644
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,120
really an apples to apples
comparison either for many

645
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,200
reasons.
But OK.

646
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,120
OK, I'm sorry, I'm going to
write it in.

647
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,320
While we're on the topic of
council homes though,

648
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,680
historically there's actually a
stereotype that families living

649
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,160
in council estates were much
more likely to experience

650
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,600
ghostly or poltergeistly
phenomena.

651
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,640
Specifically either because they
were seen to be more

652
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:51,280
superstitious and uneducated,
which is rude, or because people

653
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,520
said that these families living
in these council homes were

654
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,880
trying to get the local council
to move them to a different,

655
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,360
possibly better slash not
haunted flat.

656
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,400
The term was even coined council
estate ghost and has even led to

657
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,640
at least a handful of modern day
horror movies, namely His house

658
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,280
which was horrifying and I
couldn't finish it.

659
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,400
It was too scary for me.
Also the discovered and

660
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,320
creatively named A haunting and
council house, which feels a bit

661
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,560
on the nose, but I'll allow it.
All right.

662
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,160
Where were we before?
OK all right, all right, all

663
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:30,840
right, right.
Right.

664
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,720
Enfield, London.
Enfield is in North London so

665
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:40,360
it's about an hour ride N on the
tube from Buckingham Palace,

666
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,400
which when I wrote this for some
reason I felt like Buckingham

667
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:48,240
Palace was a good frame of
reference for you in terms of in

668
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,760
terms of where in London Enfield
is.

669
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,440
Hopefully that's true.
The time the setting is late

670
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,560
August.
Janet will be starting at a new

671
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,280
school the next week, something
she is very much not looking

672
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,240
forward to.
And inside the council house at

673
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:09,600
284 Green St. on the 31st of
August.

674
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:16,200
Peggy Hodgson calls Emergency
Services 999 and the rest is

675
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:22,760
literal paranormal history.
Fiction versus reality.

676
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,760
So if you've seen The Conjuring
2, you may think you know this

677
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,440
story, and that would be fair.
Not only is the movie said to be

678
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,120
based on a true story, but the
end credits intersperse real

679
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:43,000
photos taken in 1977 and 1978
alongside modern staged photos

680
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,600
that are meant to look like
legitimate photos.

681
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,800
And I've talked before about how
common it is in horror movie to

682
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,720
claim that a story is based on a
true story, regardless of how

683
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:56,880
true the true story actually is.
Like The Amityville Horror and

684
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,960
The Exorcist.
Though for me it was The Blair

685
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:03,720
Witch Project that left me
psychologically scarred as I

686
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:08,640
fully believed the found footage
premise but showing the real

687
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,440
photos beside the staged ones.
It's clearly intended to give

688
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,640
the audience the impression that
everything in the movie really

689
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,080
was true.
And not just the movie either.

690
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,720
The movie was based on the
Enfield story as published in

691
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:24,840
The Demonologist by Gerald
Brittle.

692
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,560
The allegedly true case files of
the Warrens Reminder Gerald

693
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,960
Brittle has, since writing the
book, called Everything in The

694
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,560
Demonologist complete fiction.
Ed and Lorraine didn't write

695
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,240
their own books, you see.
They had their agents hire

696
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,080
authors to write the books for
them.

697
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:46,360
The tall tale told in the The
tall tale told The Demonologist

698
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,920
is mostly nonsense, but it does
provide a fairly accurate

699
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,480
transcription of the recordings
that Ed made of Janet and Co.

700
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,720
At least when it comes to The
Conjuring 2, the third movie in

701
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:04,440
The Conjuring franchise that
earned $321.8 million in the box

702
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,960
office.
The demon hunting elephant in

703
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,120
the room is of course the
Warrens themselves.

704
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,160
Famous self-proclaimed
demonologist Ed Warren, who only

705
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,720
started calling himself a
demonologist after the

706
00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:21,200
popularity and widespread panic
of The Exorcist mind you.

707
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,120
And Ed's wife Lorraine, a
self-proclaimed clairvoyant and

708
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:32,360
light transmedium, did in fact
visit the Hodgson family for

709
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,240
like a few hours, maybe a couple
days.

710
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:41,160
OK, four days at most, with most
of that time being after the

711
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,520
activity died down.
The Warrens didn't even show up

712
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,800
at infield until like 8 months
into the investigation.

713
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,960
The Hodgson's told Play Fair
that they didn't even remember

714
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,320
talking to the Warrens at all,
but we do have audio recordings

715
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,480
of Ed interviewing them, so I
guess that that just means that

716
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,560
the Warrens weren't that
memorable.

717
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,840
I do find it particularly
noteworthy, however, that in the

718
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,440
press kits.
For The Conjuring.

719
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,080
Two, that Janet and Margaret
both recorded video for in order

720
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,440
to be used as promos at various
media outlets that they both

721
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,680
tell a very different story.
Suddenly, Janet says that

722
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,720
actually she remembers them very
clearly because when Ed and

723
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:29,280
Lorraine showed up, they brought
with them a quote UN quote warm

724
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,960
comfort and that she could tell
that they were there to actually

725
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,760
help the family, not just to
gawk at them.

726
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:39,960
Now, does that not fit just a
little too conveniently with the

727
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,040
sanitized Warren lore that
Lorraine had baked into her life

728
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,560
rights agreement?
We even see in another promo

729
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,440
video for The Conjuring 2 that
Margaret fangirls about seeing

730
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,760
Lorraine.
But what she actually gushes

731
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,800
about isn't how much she missed
Lorraine because she remembered

732
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,560
Lorraine and because they had
obviously interacted when she

733
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,080
was a child going through a
particularly traumatizing period

734
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,520
of her life.
No, actually, Margaret just

735
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:11,800
fangirls because she says I've
seen your movies.

736
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:17,880
I've seen you in the movies.
So the girls, now women, even

737
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,000
walked the red carpet with
Lorraine for the opening of The

738
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,760
Conjuring 2 movie all dolled up.
It was actually kind of cute.

739
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,280
This is just, however, another
example of the movie showing

740
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,240
real photos alongside staged
photos.

741
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,560
An example I'm pretty sure of
ostension, which is effectively

742
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:42,400
fiction reversing into reality.
See the recent scary movies and

743
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,240
TV shows use occult consultants
or religious advisors isn't

744
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:48,840
because they feel passionate
about getting it right.

745
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,520
It's actually done to conflate
fiction and reality, especially

746
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,800
via authority bias.
Sure, maybe a witch who's acting

747
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,600
as an an occult consultant for
the Craft doesn't sound like an

748
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,600
authority figure.
She's not a doctor or a cop or a

749
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:09,360
politician or whatever, but she
is an authority on witchcraft.

750
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,280
So yeah, authority bias.
These movie makers really do

751
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,520
know exactly what they're doing.
So let's just be clear.

752
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,320
The Warrens were not household
names, especially not in the UK.

753
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,400
No one invited them to
investigate.

754
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,880
The Society for Psychical
Research had that covered, and

755
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,720
they definitely wouldn't ask
some American hucksters to muck

756
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:32,280
about in their business.
The movie The Conjuring 2

757
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,080
portrays Ed and Lorraine as
heroically showing up and

758
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,720
solving the case.
Because obviously it was demons

759
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:39,360
that was the problem the whole
time.

760
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,880
And then Ed and Lorraine,
especially Ed, warmed the

761
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:47,560
children's hearts with a
stirring rendition of Elvis.

762
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:54,320
No, really, they have a whole
scene where Ed is playing an

763
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,920
acoustic guitar in the Hodgson's
living room while singing I

764
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,560
Can't Help Falling in Love With
You while Lorraine gazes

765
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,880
lovingly at her husband with
stars in her eyes and remind

766
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,520
reminder, this is the husband
who she definitely didn't need

767
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,360
to put a clause in her life
rights about to ensure that

768
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,920
their relationship was portrayed
solely as wholesome and saintly

769
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,960
and that no movie could ever
depict Ed having an affair or

770
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,480
sex with minors.
Oh, wait, no, Lorraine did have

771
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,760
to do that.
Yeah, she definitely did.

772
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,160
Interesting, another detail that
irritated me about the movie was

773
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,800
the ham fisted edition of a
Ouija board as the cause for all

774
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,280
the activity in the home.
Like yes obviously it's a good

775
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,560
plot device because we've seen
it in the Exorcist in Paranormal

776
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,760
Activity, but why do we need it
here?

777
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,280
There is no Ouija board in the
real Enfield case, so why

778
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,520
include it?
I have a hunch it's because the

779
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,720
activity starting out of the
blue just doesn't make sense,

780
00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:58,760
narratively speaking.
There needed to be a catalyst

781
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,000
for one, and they needed to make
sure that the audience

782
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,560
understood that the entity in
this house was demonic, hence

783
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,640
readily defeated by Ed and
Lorraine.

784
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,400
Except, hold on a second, wait a
minute.

785
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,040
I had AI had a thought and I
just checked my copy of the

786
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,760
Demonologist, The allegedly true
stories of the Warrens, and

787
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,880
according to the Demonologist,
it was Ed.

788
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:25,320
Yeah, Ed says in The
Demonologist that it was all

789
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,240
caused by Ouija boards.
So that's where the Ouija board

790
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:30,320
concept came from.
That actually makes way more

791
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,240
sense.
He had way more motivation to

792
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:35,720
convince people that the
poltergeist is actually a demon

793
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:38,000
than the film makers did,
Although I'm sure it was

794
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,440
convenient for the film makers
too.

795
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,000
Also, fun fact, in 1967,
according to Parker Brothers,

796
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,120
Ouija boards outsold Monopoly,
and that was before the Exorcist

797
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,680
movie even came out.
Annoyingly, I can't find any

798
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,480
data that shows whether sales
dipped or climbed in 1971 or

799
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:59,360
1973 when the book and movie The
Exorcist came out, but I bet

800
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,680
they were flying off the shelves
literally.

801
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,960
All right, you know what else?
You know what else grinds my

802
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,280
Garrus is?
There was no Crooked Man figure

803
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,840
in the real case.
This was a character.

804
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,280
If you haven't seen The
Conjuring 2, clearly that's what

805
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,920
I've been talking about.
But in The Conjuring 2, there is

806
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:24,720
this Crooked Man character in
the movie who is very creepy and

807
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,440
actually my favorite part of the
movie.

808
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:33,160
But it just seemed unnecessary
or excessive, perhaps redundant.

809
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,640
What was the point?
We didn't need, we don't, we

810
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,520
didn't need the Crooked Man.
We had Bill Wilkins.

811
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:40,800
I just didn't think we needed
it.

812
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,240
But he was very spooky and it
was, it was done to good effect.

813
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:47,720
It was just not accurate
whatsoever.

814
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,520
I don't know, maybe they were
thinking that they could do a

815
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,280
spin off movie about the Crooked
Man.

816
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,760
Maybe they still plan to because
you know, they have like a 40

817
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,920
year plan like with the Marvel
movies, you know they have like

818
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,320
the next 500 films already
planned in The Conjuring

819
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,480
universe.
Now Ed in The Demonologist

820
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,880
claims that he travelled to
Enfield on three separate

821
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,480
occasions and during one of
those trips spent an entire week

822
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,120
there.
If he did spend a week there, he

823
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,120
must have been sightseeing
because he wasn't spending any

824
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,120
of that time investigating the
Hodgson home or Janet.

825
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,160
Ed claimed that during his
investigation that a rock the

826
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,040
size of a softball materialized
out of thin air in front of him

827
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,160
and dropped to the ground.
And of course, when she'd know

828
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,800
it, when he took it to an
unnamed geologist at the

829
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,400
University of London, which he
apparently has connections at,

830
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,400
this mysterious geologist
claimed that it was a type of

831
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,720
rock that could only be found in
one place in the entire world,

832
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:53,760
the Isle of Wight, an island off
the South Coast of England.

833
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,080
I feel like he could have gone
bigger with that fib.

834
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,200
I'm actually not even sure that
Ed would even know what the Isle

835
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,880
of Wight is or that it exists.
So I kind of suspect that that

836
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,440
was a detail that Brittle came
up with when he was writing the

837
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,200
book for them personally.
That's just my take.

838
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,440
Even in the short time that the
Warrens spent investigating the

839
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:21,000
case, Ed was so rude and so
ungrateful that Peggy, Janet's

840
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,960
mom, had a go at him.
Which if you're British, you

841
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,440
know, that's a big deal.
Having a go, that's huge.

842
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,120
Peggy was even quoted saying
that she hadn't wanted the

843
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:37,080
Warrens there in the 1st place.
Playfair said of the Warrens

844
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,240
that they just wanted to make
some money out of it.

845
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,960
In fact, he stated that Ed
specifically said to him, in a

846
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:48,600
way I imagine as Sato Vache, we
could make a lot of money.

847
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,360
And not only that, but Janet's
aunt and uncle who lived down

848
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:56,040
the street, Sylvia and John
Burcombe, reported that Ed

849
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:01,000
consistently and persistently
wanted to talk money with them,

850
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:04,520
with John specifically saying
that Ed was trying to capitalize

851
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,800
on the case.
They described Ed's dishonesty

852
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,960
and arrogance, but they
definitely did not describe was

853
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:18,480
Ed serenading them with Elvis.
And now let's move on to

854
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,760
evidence.
There's quite a lot of low

855
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,120
hanging fruit when it comes to
dodgy evidence.

856
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,840
The Enfield case, which I think
is completely fair considering

857
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:32,200
the sheer overwhelming amount of
stuff that they recorded,

858
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,280
probably the lowest of said low
hanging fruit would be the

859
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,440
photographic evidence of Janet
levitating quote UN quote or

860
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,560
being thrown quote UN quote from
her bed.

861
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:47,760
If you've only ever seen one or
two shots of these photos, you

862
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,200
might consider it to be legit.
But if you look at it in the

863
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,800
context of the other photos that
were taken around it, because

864
00:55:54,800 --> 00:56:00,160
this was shot from a camera with
a remote control that would

865
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,520
allow the photo to take like a
burst of photos one after the

866
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,600
other.
If you actually look at all the

867
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:10,080
photos taken in succession.
And actually, if you, if you

868
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,480
want to just find, you just
Google this because there's GIFs

869
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,160
out there that people have made
of putting all the photos

870
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:21,640
together as like a stop motion.
And it is just very clearly like

871
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:27,400
unquestionably cut and dry.
A little girl jumping out of

872
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,400
bed, like literally, you know,
like kids do how they jump from

873
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,920
a bed because it's like a
trampoline.

874
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,400
That's literally all that it is.
There's no question.

875
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,160
And the way that her hair falls,
the way their hair moves like in

876
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,640
with gravity, like her, her hair
on the clothes, her the way her

877
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,640
knees are bent up.
There's just, it's

878
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,560
unquestionably not paranormal.
This is the most mundane thing

879
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,880
that happened.
Just kids jumping on beds and

880
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,840
claiming that they weren't.
I mean, come on.

881
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,680
What is more, what's more
classic of a childhood

882
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,960
experience than jumping on the
bed and claiming that no, it

883
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,400
wasn't.
It wasn't jumping on the bed.

884
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:04,680
She was, she was just jumping on
the bed.

885
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,720
So you know what?
Google it.

886
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,040
I guarantee you, you're going to
be like, never mind.

887
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,680
Those pictures aren't scary
anymore.

888
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,400
So the famous photos that people
associate with the case are

889
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,440
really just Janet being a kid
and having a laugh.

890
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,440
But as we see time and time
again in this case, the people

891
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,200
who wanted to believe did.
Oh boy, did they.

892
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,880
And they do.
Not that there's anything wrong

893
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,760
with them.
Much is made about the police's

894
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,960
statement about the activity
that was witnessed in the house.

895
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,960
WPC Carolyn Heaps did go on
record and camera asserting that

896
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,880
she really had seen a chair move
and had heard mysterious

897
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:46,160
knocking on Green Street.
But I've seen so many people say

898
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,720
that like, oh, it was just so
suspicious about the case.

899
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,080
I wasn't really sure about it,
you know, I don't know, I wasn't

900
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,320
sure.
But then WPC Heaps, her

901
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,360
testimony convinced me.
OK, I mean, I kind of get that

902
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,240
right, because, like, cops have
seen some shit and they're

903
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,920
trained to see things that are
out of the ordinary.

904
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,520
But are they trained to see the
supernatural?

905
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,600
Are they trained to figure out
if something paranormal is

906
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,680
happening?
You know, I don't know about

907
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,240
that.
I know they see stuff, but, you

908
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,280
know, I don't know.
And also, this has always

909
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,360
bothered me personally.
Like, I didn't share where this

910
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,360
is coming from, but I do find it
strange that we consider

911
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,680
authority figures to be more
trustworthy sources when it

912
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,040
comes to the paranormal.
As if doctors and cops can't be

913
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:35,200
superstitious or religious.
I mean, even scientists can be

914
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,640
super religious.
And I think that that has

915
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,200
something to do with it.
It's actually called something,

916
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:43,840
a little something you might
have heard, a little ditty you

917
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,120
might have heard called
authority bias, which I didn't

918
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,840
mention earlier.
So authority bias is human

919
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,960
tendency to be more influenced
by the opinions and judgements

920
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,760
of authority figures.
And part of authority bias

921
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:00,760
includes uniforms, meaning an
authority figure in a uniform

922
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,240
has even more weight than
everyone else.

923
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:08,160
So for this case to start out
right out the gate with a police

924
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,840
officer in uniform speaking on
camera to the news, making a

925
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,880
statement that something
unexplained happened in that

926
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:22,200
house might really have just
doused loads of petrol on the

927
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,080
fire.
Also, I think it's worth noting

928
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,160
that the police visited the
house around 1:00 AM, which is a

929
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,280
spooky time of day.
And you know, on top of that,

930
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,600
they were told that in order for
the knocking sounds to happen,

931
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,600
the lights needed to be turned
off.

932
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,640
Why?
Why do you think that would be?

933
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,760
Were we trying to hide
something?

934
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,560
Is it because maybe the people
that are doing the knocking are

935
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:52,920
not yet good enough at it and
they need the lights to be off

936
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:54,720
otherwise someone will catch
them knocking?

937
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,600
I don't know, just a thought.
I'm just footballing.

938
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,960
I don't know, what do I know?
So I think understandably WPC

939
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,200
Heaps was spooked and as I
always try to remind everybody,

940
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,080
you can feel afraid and not be
in danger.

941
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:14,240
So her belief that what she saw
was unexplainable doesn't make

942
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,520
it actually unexplainable, it
just means that she didn't have

943
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,360
an explanation for it at the
moment.

944
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,040
And I would just behoove anyone
that's listening to this that

945
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:27,080
might find themselves afraid of
anything.

946
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,600
Honestly, but especially around
3:00 AM, if you're afraid of

947
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,960
something and you're in the dark
and you're alone in your house

948
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,800
and you're scared, honestly just
remind yourself that just

949
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,880
because something is
unexplainable doesn't mean it's

950
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,200
unexplained.
It just means you don't have an

951
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:45,640
explanation for it in that
moment.

952
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,240
I find that reassuring.
Hopefully some of you do as

953
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,800
well.
And actually, though, before we

954
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,800
move on from this, I do want to
pause because Americans, you

955
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,280
know, we don't use the same
weird police acronyms that they

956
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,840
do in the UK.
So, you know, I kind of figured

957
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:01,920
out PC police something.
What is it?

958
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,240
Police constable?
OK, but what's the W for?

959
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,000
I asked myself.
Woman.

960
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:14,200
It's for woman because until
1999.

961
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:20,960
Q Prince Until 1999, women in
the UK police had their rank

962
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,840
title prefixed with the word
woman or the little letter W

963
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,800
Wow, wow, wow, wow.
The W does not stand for wow

964
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,840
again, the W does stand for
woman.

965
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:32,320
I don't know, that's just
shocking.

966
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,240
Like that's why was it, why did
that?

967
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,880
Why we why were we doing that
until 1999?

968
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,960
That feels late.
I don't even like it really in I

969
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,200
don't really like it in 1977,
honestly.

970
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,920
Anyway, that's what the W in WPC
heap stands for.

971
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,640
All right, so yet another thing
that seems to bring some

972
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,080
credibility to the story is that
the Hodgson's original

973
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,640
poltergeist situation broke,
quote UN quote in the paper,

974
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,120
quote UN quote.
But which paper exactly?

975
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,440
Oh, here it is, the Daily
Mirror.

976
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:08,320
Oh, So is that like a totally
normal newspaper with loads of

977
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,000
journalistic integrity?
Perhaps because one of the

978
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,720
documentaries that I watched
claimed that the Daily Mirror

979
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,560
took itself very seriously and
like didn't do fluff pieces or,

980
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,240
you know, whatever.
No, they were a very serious

981
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,920
paper.
So OK, let's see, let's look up,

982
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,960
let's look up.
Let's, let's just look one up.

983
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,120
1979.
Here's a cover from 19/19/79 of

984
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,560
the Daily Mirror.
And here we go, the headline

985
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,840
above, a photo of the apparent
Princess of Monaco who was

986
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,080
wearing a low cut revealing
neckline.

987
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:46,920
The headline on the front page
reads Princess Peekaboob.

988
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,960
Do you get it?
It's like a play on Peekaboo,

989
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,720
but boob because she's wearing a
revealing.

990
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,760
There's a little bit of side
boob in the photo.

991
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,840
That's the headline on the Daily
Mirror.

992
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,400
Princess Peekaboob.
And then the article goes on to

993
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,280
make a lot of breast puns.
You know, it's it's OK.

994
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,840
It's kind of funny.
But also, this is not a serious

995
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,840
paper.
This is this is a tabloid.

996
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,800
OK, so a tabloid broke the
story.

997
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,440
And listen, I love tabloids.
I don't know, maybe some of our

998
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,040
younger listeners aren't even
aware of what a tabloid is

999
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:31,720
because the way that news is
these days, it's completely

1000
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,400
indistinguishable from tabloid
news.

1001
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,960
But back in the day, while you
were, like, at the supermarket

1002
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,240
checkout, you would see a
tabloid paper, which had, of

1003
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,560
course, you know, gossip stuff,
but it would also have creepy,

1004
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,720
weird, strange, paranormal
happenings.

1005
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,880
So that's why I liked tabloids
as a kid because there would be

1006
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,280
like aliens and Bigfoot UFO
sightings.

1007
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,440
And I don't know why I said
Bigfoot UFOI guess I was like

1008
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,320
putting it, this isn't written.
I'm just unable to speak

1009
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,600
properly today.
Anyway, weird stories or you

1010
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,480
would hear about Elvis
sightings.

1011
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,440
And again, for our younger
listeners, some people say that

1012
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:14,960
there's a conspiracy that Elvis
actually faked his death.

1013
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,960
And so when you would pick up
these tabloids, sometimes they

1014
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,920
would be like Elvis sighted
after faking his death.

1015
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,680
Anyway, that's the that's the
Daily Mirror.

1016
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,640
That's what broke.
That's what broke the story.

1017
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,920
Now, did the BBC also come and
interview them?

1018
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,320
Yes, of course.
Of course they did.

1019
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:32,640
But you know what?
What?

1020
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,880
What are you going to do?
You can't let the Daily Mirror

1021
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:36,080
scoop you.
Come on.

1022
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,960
All right, so now we've talked
about all that.

1023
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:45,640
Let's talk about Bill.
Bill Wilkins in 18.

1024
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,320
Nope.
In 19.

1025
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:55,040
Yep, in December 1977, Gross had
been telling his adult son all

1026
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,520
about the Enfield case, coaxing
him to come visit the house with

1027
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:02,920
him to see for himself.
So David Gross's son, David

1028
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:06,080
Gross, told his father that he'd
only visit the Hodgson home with

1029
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,520
him if the poltergeist started
to talk.

1030
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:14,960
What seems to have been the very
next day, Gross said in Janet's

1031
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:20,120
earshot, if not directly to her.
Now all I need is the voices to

1032
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:25,400
talk.
Well, why not?

1033
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,720
Mr. Groff was talking about it
about 8:30.

1034
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,680
He said all we need now is the
voices to talk.

1035
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:37,760
And so, wouldn't you know it,
later that same night, the same

1036
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:42,720
night that he said I need this
stuff to start talking, Janet

1037
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:47,960
conveniently begins speaking in
the voice for the first time.

1038
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:52,080
The deep, gruff voice with a
thick cockney accent that was

1039
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,560
very clearly mimicking Morris
Gross, even though the kids

1040
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,760
themselves all sort of had a
little bit of a cockney accent.

1041
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,920
And though Gross says multiple
times that she uses the voice

1042
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:07,280
without so much of a tremble of
her lips, there's at least one

1043
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,720
video recording of Janet
speaking in the voice, wherein

1044
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,080
her mouth is very clearly
moving.

1045
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:16,440
So OK.
Anyway, Margaret also began

1046
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,880
using a version of the Bill
voice, but she just wasn't as

1047
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,920
good at it.
And after a few months, even

1048
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,040
Billy starts imitating the
voice.

1049
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,400
Shocker.
Like, of course he does.

1050
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,240
He went sit on the fun.
He's probably terrified of it in

1051
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:31,640
the beginning, but then, you
know, probably turned into a fun

1052
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:36,080
game anyway.
But the voice isn't Bill at

1053
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:37,480
first.
No, no, no, no, no.

1054
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:39,640
They run through a gamut of
names.

1055
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,360
No, I didn't say slew that.
They run through a gamut of

1056
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:46,800
names, all using practically the
same voice, occasionally barking

1057
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,520
like a dog throughout or meowing
like a cat.

1058
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,840
Before there was Bill, there
was, and this is a non

1059
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,440
exhaustive list, Joe Watson,
Fred.

1060
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:04,080
Tom Dirty Dick, Dirty Dick,
Andrew Gardner, Stuart Certaint

1061
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,840
or Stuart Certain misses
Haylock.

1062
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:12,920
Bill Haylock, Not Bill Wilkins.
Bill Haylock misses Oakland,

1063
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:19,800
Charlie Brown, Charlie Zebedee,
Ralph, Claude and Barney, and

1064
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,200
also more that I couldn't quite
make out in some of the

1065
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:26,000
recordings.
And finally, the voice lands on

1066
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,480
Bill Wilkins and largely stays
there.

1067
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:34,120
The family's pet goldfish died.
And when Gross asks the spirit

1068
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:39,600
through Janet who killed the
goldfish, Janet, I mean Geoffrey

1069
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,280
Preciale, another new name that
I forgot to mention earlier,

1070
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,320
claims that he electrocuted the
fish using spirit energy.

1071
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:53,400
And then when the budgie AKA
Parakeet dies, it's assumed to

1072
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,640
have also been due to the
poltergeist.

1073
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:00,400
Also, by the way, a note on the
parakeet AKA the budgie, they

1074
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,080
brought the bird into the house
shortly before all of the

1075
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,880
activity started.
And apparently the parakeet

1076
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:11,400
belonged to a woman who died.
And so at first, Gross kind of

1077
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,800
suspected that the parakeet
might have been behind all the

1078
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,720
paranormal activity.
OK, back to Bill.

1079
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,920
Something Bill once said is also
the nail in the proverbial

1080
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,200
coffin for people on the fence
about the case.

1081
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:29,560
So if it's not WPC Carolyn
Heaps, it's Bill saying

1082
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,880
something in particular that has
made people true believers.

1083
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:37,880
And what he said is definitely
very scary at first blush, but

1084
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,240
just wait.
So Janet, in Bill's voice

1085
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,520
claimed he died of a hemorrhage
sitting in his chair and he was

1086
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,000
72 years old and he died and
then he went blind.

1087
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,439
Everybody makes a really big
deal about the fact that, as it

1088
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,000
turned out, there actually had
been a Bill Wilkins who lived

1089
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,640
and died in the house.
And that later Bill Wilkins son

1090
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:02,040
confirmed that his dad did die
sitting in a chair in that very

1091
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:06,080
House of a brain hemorrhage.
Except that actually Bill

1092
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,040
Wilkins was only 61 when he
died, not 72.

1093
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,520
And according to his death
certificate, which you can find

1094
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,200
on like findagrave.com, I think
it was, he died of a heart

1095
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,760
attack, not a hemorrhage.
And it's hardly supernatural for

1096
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,960
neighbors to discuss morbid
stuff like the death of a

1097
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,560
neighbor.
And it's also even less weird

1098
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,399
for that sort of gossip to make
it to the ears of the Hutchinson

1099
01:09:28,399 --> 01:09:30,720
kids who lived there for 13
years.

1100
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:34,040
People are morbid.
Kids are super morbid.

1101
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:37,439
I've seen a lot of people argue
that there's just no way for

1102
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,040
Janet to have ever possibly
known that information about

1103
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:41,359
Bill.
But like, really, it's

1104
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:44,520
impossible.
I, I don't know the, I don't

1105
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,760
know, that's the word I would
use in this instance.

1106
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,920
There's a lot of really creepy
stuff that happens in the infill

1107
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,319
poltergeist.
I just don't feel like this is

1108
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:54,840
one of them.
And it's just not, it's not,

1109
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:59,000
it's not doing it for me.
So Terry Wilkins, the real

1110
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,160
Bill's son, who verified that
actually, yes, that is how he

1111
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,920
died.
Terry told Gross that it didn't

1112
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,800
sound like his father, actually,
who had been a very quiet man.

1113
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,120
But then when he hears the
recording of Janet saying in her

1114
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,320
Bill voice that he went blind
and died of a hemorrhage, and

1115
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:23,520
Terry Wilkins then says
verbatim, that's exactly how he

1116
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:28,040
died multiple times.
He says it over and over on

1117
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,520
camera.
But that's not how he died, is

1118
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,200
it?
He didn't have a hemorrhage.

1119
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,560
He had a heart attack.
So I don't know.

1120
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,600
I feel like obviously Terry
Wilkins just didn't.

1121
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,960
Maybe he just never even knew
exactly what killed his father.

1122
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,160
I mean, when the 70s, I feel
like it's fair that maybe you

1123
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,640
didn't actually know.
I they probably barely spoke

1124
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,320
about it.
You know, they things were just

1125
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:55,040
different back then.
So I think that he's not lying.

1126
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,440
I think this is probably a case
that's more like when a psychic

1127
01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:02,720
is doing a cold reading and you
conveniently forget all of the

1128
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,200
misses and you only remember the
hits.

1129
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:08,720
That's kind of what it feels
like with Terry Wilkins saying

1130
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,640
that.
And also, I should be noted that

1131
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,560
an acquaintance of the real Bill
Wilkins described him as

1132
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:18,040
generous and respectable and
said specifically that Bill did

1133
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:22,080
not use foul language.
And as a reminder, the bill that

1134
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,040
Janet claimed to be speaking
through her was almost entirely

1135
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:29,760
made-up of foul language.
Like super inappropriate

1136
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:31,560
language.
Very rude.

1137
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,880
Seems uncharacteristic of the
real Bill Wilkins.

1138
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:40,280
I should probably specify here
that all of the people involved

1139
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,600
in the investigation that fully
believed that everything was

1140
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:48,400
true, they all were so convinced
by Janet's voice, they were

1141
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,240
saying there's no way that this
little girl can make the scary

1142
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:52,840
voice.
There's no way, it's impossible,

1143
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,280
no way this 11 year old girl
could do this.

1144
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:59,120
And they brought in a voice
coach who said, oh, there's no

1145
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,200
way that she could ever possibly
use that voice for that long

1146
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,280
without getting a sore throat
and all these other things that

1147
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,680
were.
It's just, it's crazy to me.

1148
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,320
And so I want you to hear a clip
of the voice.

1149
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:13,840
If you haven't heard it, this is
just.

1150
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,120
If you have heard it, I'm going
to remind you.

1151
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,680
I want to play a clip so that
you can hear what it is that all

1152
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:24,120
of these adults and experts
claim to be so convinced by.

1153
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,880
No, no.
Who's there?

1154
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,280
Doctor.
Doctor Who?

1155
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,160
These choices are here.
I'm invisible.

1156
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,200
You're invisible.
Why are you invisible?

1157
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:52,400
I tell my GHOST.
Like, OK, OK, very convincing.

1158
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:57,120
So Ray Allen, famous
ventriloquist, visited the house

1159
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,440
and concluded that Janet's bill
voice was just a vocal trick,

1160
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,440
while they also had some
scientists visit to prove

1161
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:06,280
something about
electromagnetism, I think, and

1162
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:10,480
the use of Tibetan, Tibetan,
wow, Tibetan throat singing

1163
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:13,680
techniques.
Sometimes the simplest answer is

1164
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:16,720
the right answer.
And listen, I never thought that

1165
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,360
I would ever say this, but I
trust the ventriloquist.

1166
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:25,240
I trust the ventriloquist.
Not only that, but the skeptical

1167
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:30,680
magician Melbourne, Christopher
wrote in his book Evidence of

1168
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,400
Ventriloquial Fakery.
I feel like I nailed.

1169
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:35,480
That ventriloquial?
Come on.

1170
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:41,600
Evidence of ventriloquial fakery
was even taken as proof of And

1171
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:45,680
then I mess up proof, Come on
was taken even as proof of

1172
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,960
authenticity.
According to Playfair, the

1173
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,400
connection between Janet and the
voice is obviously very close.

1174
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,280
There have been several
occasions when she says

1175
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,760
something it obviously meant to
say, and vice versa.

1176
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,160
Would she slip up like that if
she was faking the whole thing?

1177
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:07,480
I love it because the next line
that Melbourne Christopher

1178
01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:12,920
writes is, is he kidding?
Because no, seriously, is he

1179
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,480
kidding?
No, he's not kidding.

1180
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,360
This is what I'm saying about
the adult for their problem in

1181
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:23,280
this story.
OK, so Bill the Poltergeist,

1182
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,080
which remember, poltergeists
aren't dead people, but that's

1183
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:30,120
fine.
So Bill the Poltergeist claimed

1184
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:35,520
a lot of nonsense.
Bill the Poltergeist claimed a

1185
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,320
lot of nonsensical things that
Gross and Playfair seemed

1186
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:42,560
completely unconcerned about.
Like how Bill had 68 dogs which

1187
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:46,480
were 6 foot tall Chihuahuas, but
then actually, no, they were

1188
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:49,400
Labradors, which Janet found
hilarious.

1189
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:53,120
Which I get because I laugh at
my own jokes all the time too.

1190
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,720
Literally all day, every day.
I'm cracking myself up.

1191
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:01,080
So, Janet, I feel you, girl.
And so recall that Morris

1192
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,480
Gross's son, David Gross, said
he'd only visit the Hodgson home

1193
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:07,920
if the spirit started talking.
And recall also that Gross and

1194
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:09,520
then immediately said as much as
Janet.

1195
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,880
And then Janet immediately
conjured up a scary voice that

1196
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,400
exact same day.
So David Gross, Morris's son,

1197
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:18,480
visits the house just as he
promised his father that he

1198
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:21,280
would do now that the
poltergeist was talking.

1199
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:25,720
Janet, upon meeting him with
just the two of them in her

1200
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:30,480
bedroom, makes this man, this
grown man, turn around and face

1201
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:32,680
the wall in order to speak to
the spirit.

1202
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,040
Only then does she speak in the
deep voice of a supposed dead

1203
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:38,840
man.
And what does this entity ask

1204
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:43,760
poor David?
Why do big girls get periods?

1205
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:50,600
And also, let's not forget, why
do men wear that plastic thing

1206
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:57,680
when in bed with a woman?
Yes, those are the questions

1207
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:02,480
that Bill, the 72 year old man
is asking.

1208
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,920
So poor David calls for backup.
He immediately is so flustered

1209
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:10,720
and immediately opens the door.
Like help, help, help.

1210
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,280
So someone else comes in,
another grown man.

1211
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:17,040
I think I'm getting there's so
many characters in this story so

1212
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,520
please forgive me.
Anyway, he he brings in another

1213
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,880
grown man as backup and makes
her ask this other guy the same

1214
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,040
questions.
Also having to face the wall.

1215
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:29,960
I think that maybe David Gross
learned how periods work along

1216
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:34,120
with Janet, honestly, because he
was so flustered.

1217
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:39,240
Poor guy, right?
So none of the video that they

1218
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:43,760
recorded captured any paranormal
activity beyond Janet's evil

1219
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,800
little voice, but it did capture
a few gems.

1220
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:53,640
Like my favorite one, Janet says
your face now ghost with a

1221
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:57,400
shitty little smile.
And Margaret, barely able to

1222
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:02,000
contain her Glee, is giggling
and tells her to shut up.

1223
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,640
How does it feel to be haunted
by a poltergeist?

1224
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:13,280
It's not haunted shut.
Up Why isn't it haunted?

1225
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,680
I don't know.
I mean, they were just having a

1226
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,200
blast sometimes.
I mean, sometimes they

1227
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:20,200
definitely weren't, but I think
sometimes they were.

1228
01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:24,000
And I also see comments on some
of these videos saying, do you

1229
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,000
guys not understand that
laughing, that laughter is like

1230
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:32,200
a nervous response and and it's
a stress response and you know.

1231
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,200
Yeah, no, for sure because I do
too.

1232
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:38,200
I also laugh inappropriately.
Like it's really embarrassing

1233
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,000
actually.
Like, it's just my immediate

1234
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,080
response to something stressful
is to laugh.

1235
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,720
Like what?
That's not what this is.

1236
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,720
They're having a good time.
OK, They're messing around.

1237
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:51,600
All right, So if you're close to
this case, I am sure that you

1238
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,440
are probably thinking, if not
screaming, But what about the

1239
01:17:54,440 --> 01:17:58,600
tape over her mouth experiment?
OK, Jeez.

1240
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:00,200
Fine.
OK, let's talk about it.

1241
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:04,080
So according to Gross and
Playfair's own records, the

1242
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:08,160
first time Gross tried the
experiment to tape Janet's mouth

1243
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,600
shut to see if she could still
use the bill voice with her

1244
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,160
mouth shut, the results were
subdued, quote UN quote, which

1245
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:18,880
seems to mean that she was able
to make some sort of sound,

1246
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:20,960
though the details really aren't
there.

1247
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:26,880
But I think the lack of detail,
I feel like it's telling and

1248
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:29,240
that it wasn't very successful,
but it apparently wasn't a

1249
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,200
complete failure.
Trying again, Gross shifted

1250
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:35,760
gears and instead had Janet hold
water or cold tea.

1251
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,560
I've seen both referenced in the
notes in her mouth to see if she

1252
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,320
could speak.
Unfortunately she only made a

1253
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:46,680
few grunts after spitting the
water or tea out or swallowing

1254
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:49,280
some of it, and she nearly
choked trying.

1255
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:52,920
It's also worth noting that the
American magician Melbourne

1256
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:56,000
Christopher successfully
replicated Janet's success with

1257
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:00,120
the tape over her mouth by using
a ventriloquist technique.

1258
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,280
But weirdly, if you read some of
the accounts of the other

1259
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:08,560
witnesses that were there even
associated with the SPR, they do

1260
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:12,720
claim that Janet's bill voice
was heard with total and

1261
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:18,520
complete clarity, even with her
mouth taped shut as as if she

1262
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,320
were just speaking normally.
It actually reminds me of

1263
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,520
something that I read in The
Exorcist Effect.

1264
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,680
So apparently when they were
making, apparently, apparently

1265
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:30,920
when they were making the movie
Rosemary's Baby, they couldn't

1266
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,440
quite figure out how to manage
making a baby look like it had

1267
01:19:34,440 --> 01:19:36,840
evil demon eyes.
To the point where they were

1268
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,680
even considering somehow
figuring out how to use an

1269
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:42,000
actual cat to get the effect
dress.

1270
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,320
Dressing a cat up like a baby,
perhaps.

1271
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,080
But the director, Roman
Polanski, said no way, we're not

1272
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:52,200
going to show the baby at all.
If I do my job right, the

1273
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:54,920
audience will think they saw the
baby.

1274
01:19:56,440 --> 01:19:58,080
And that's exactly what
happened.

1275
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,200
Y'all literally that's what
happened.

1276
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:07,280
Before anyone had even turned
turned the coin, before anyone

1277
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:12,640
had coined the term the Mandela
Effect, people were convinced

1278
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:16,080
that the movie Rosemary's Baby
had been edited to remove the

1279
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,040
shot of the baby that they so
clearly remembered having seen.

1280
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:23,000
But it was never there in the
1st place.

1281
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,480
But they're convinced that they
saw it to the point where there

1282
01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:30,800
was even an article published
about it saying, I can't believe

1283
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,360
that they edited this scene.
Like why would they have edited

1284
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:35,840
the scene out?
Like that's a travesty.

1285
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,200
You need to have that.
The scene wasn't there.

1286
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,960
The scene wasn't there.
This many people just remembered

1287
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:44,800
that it was there, but it was
never there to begin with.

1288
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:49,560
You see how you see what I'm
saying about how they're maybe,

1289
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:53,640
maybe they're misremembering the
success of the tape over the

1290
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,560
mouth or the cold tea in the
mouth experiment.

1291
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:00,720
Because, look, our minds are
just so much more powerful than

1292
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,160
we give them credit for.
And what really stood out to me

1293
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:10,160
with this story was how adults,
mostly men, kept insisting over

1294
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,240
and over again that all the
weird stuff happening couldn't

1295
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:15,560
possibly be done by little
girls.

1296
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,680
Like, oh, Janet couldn't
possibly have made that gruff

1297
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,520
voice for so long.
Or oh, Janet couldn't possibly

1298
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:23,720
have moved that thing, it was
too heavy for her.

1299
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:27,320
Or Janet couldn't have fooled so
many adults.

1300
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:32,080
What, like it's hard?
What, like it's hard?

1301
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,400
Why are we so easily dismissing
Janet and Margaret just because

1302
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,000
they're little girls?
I was a little girl once.

1303
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:44,480
I know how evil they could be.
Devious, cunning, and entirely

1304
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:49,080
dedicated to the bit.
You will not find someone more

1305
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:53,000
dedicated to a bit than a little
girl.

1306
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,320
Little girls also lie like their
lives depend on it.

1307
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:59,680
I lied my strange little ass
off.

1308
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:03,080
Lying is actually, by the way, a
healthy part of development for

1309
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,240
kids.
Maybe not to this extent, but

1310
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,520
still, it's a healthy part of
development.

1311
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:12,240
And As for the voice of Bill,
what do you mean she couldn't do

1312
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:13,920
it?
What do you mean?

1313
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,000
Based on what?
You know, Gross insisted that

1314
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:20,640
that vocal coach had said that
Janet couldn't possibly sustain

1315
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,240
that voice for so long without
damaging the vocal cords.

1316
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:28,080
OK, Yeah, well whatever.
He said that if he had done the

1317
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:31,920
voice for just 5 minutes that
his throat would be hoarse and

1318
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:36,320
that was his reason for saying
that she couldn't possibly be

1319
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,720
doing that, be doing the voice
that long because Morris

1320
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:41,600
couldn't do that voice for 5
minutes.

1321
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:45,320
Skill issue, Morris, skill
issue.

1322
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:49,520
Also remember, you know, they
didn't have iPads back then.

1323
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:54,400
OK, so the only video game even
inside of any home at that point

1324
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,160
was Atari's home.
Pong.

1325
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:01,680
Literally just pong.
And it would have cost nearly

1326
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,920
$600 in today's money, which a
single parent family living in a

1327
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,200
council house certainly wouldn't
have access to.

1328
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:12,360
The family had only 1 shared TV.
That would have been the best

1329
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,880
form of escape for all of the
Hodgson kids.

1330
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:18,160
So actually, isn't it
interesting that despite all of

1331
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:21,480
the furniture getting tossed
around, knocked over, and

1332
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:25,840
generally assaulted, that the TV
was the only thing that went

1333
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:29,880
unharmed the entire time?
Interesting.

1334
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,640
I just think we need to give
weird little girls some more

1335
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,320
credit here, that's all.
That's all I'm asking when

1336
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:39,320
Melbourne Christopher, the
American magician and ardent

1337
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:41,760
skeptic.
And by the way, pause, pause,

1338
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:45,240
pause, pause, pause.
I am so here for all of these

1339
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:49,520
ardent skeptics slash magicians.
You've got Harry Houdini, you've

1340
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,400
got James Rand, the amazing
James Randi.

1341
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,160
Those are the 2 that are at the
top of my head.

1342
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:59,760
If you want to hear more about
magicians slash skeptics like

1343
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:03,680
Houdini and Randy, let me know
Madam strangewas@gmail.com.

1344
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:07,720
So when Melbourne Christopher
visited Green Street to see the

1345
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,280
case for himself, he was
unimpressed.

1346
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,280
He even caught Janet trying to
sneak down the stairs after she

1347
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:18,040
pretended to go to bed,
presumably to cause mischief.

1348
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:23,480
He stated that quote UN quote,
the poltergeist was nothing more

1349
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:26,600
than the antics of a little girl
who wanted to cause trouble and

1350
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:30,360
who was very, very clever.
There's even historical

1351
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,680
precedence for weird little
girls outsmarting a bunch of

1352
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:37,040
incredibly smart adults.
Stay with me here, because we're

1353
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,480
going to briefly discuss a few
other cases if it pleases the

1354
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:42,280
court.
There's the Cottingley Fairies

1355
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:45,880
hoax, for starters.
So in 1917, two cousins, Elsie,

1356
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:50,000
16, and Francis, 9, captured
photographs of what appeared to

1357
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:53,400
be miniature fairies dancing and
posing with them.

1358
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,000
The girls insisted that they
were real, and for some reason

1359
01:24:57,480 --> 01:25:01,280
many people, some very smart
people, fell for it.

1360
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:05,440
Edward Gardner and Occultist
took an extreme interest in the

1361
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:10,160
photos as undeniable evidence of
fairies and wanted badly to have

1362
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,040
the girls capture even more
photos.

1363
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:15,680
He brought them cameras and
plates, because this was before

1364
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:19,200
film, mind you, and he asked
them to go back out into the

1365
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:22,160
Glen where they'd spotted the
fairies before, and capture even

1366
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,280
more fairies.
So they did.

1367
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,640
They did just that.
They took two more photos with

1368
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:31,920
fairies and the photos, but they
told their mother the fairies

1369
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:34,720
wouldn't show up unless the
girls were left fully alone.

1370
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,600
So off their mother went,
leaving them to their Trixie

1371
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:42,840
devices unsupervised.
Gardner even had three

1372
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:46,000
photographic companies examine
the photos of the fairies to

1373
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,560
test for tampering, including
Kodak.

1374
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,800
Kodak came back saying that
while the photos didn't appear

1375
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,960
to have been altered, they
couldn't really comment on

1376
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,040
whether that means they're
actual true fairies instead of

1377
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,760
photos.
Gardner believed that the Kodak

1378
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,120
technicians might not have
examined the photographs

1379
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:05,920
entirely objectively, observing
that one had commented.

1380
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:09,120
After all, as fairies couldn't
be true, the photographs must

1381
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:11,520
have been faked somehow.
I don't know.

1382
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:14,280
Like, how is this right?
Is that the right accent for

1383
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,160
this time period in 1917?
Yeah, I'm going to.

1384
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,160
OK, We're going to move on.
I think that was right.

1385
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:22,000
Gardner tried to get the girls
to even take more photograph,

1386
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:25,520
but the girls took no further
pictures, having long tired of

1387
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,800
the fairy shtick.
They told him that they hadn't

1388
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,400
seen any more fairies, but
Gardner claimed to have actually

1389
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:36,120
seen a lot of fairies himself,
and then even went on to write

1390
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:39,120
at length about his observations
of the fairies that he was

1391
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,680
seeing, even when the girls had
grown bored with the roost.

1392
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:45,480
Which is weird.
Both Elsie and Francis later

1393
01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:48,920
admitted that they had only
played along with him out of

1394
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:52,040
mischief and that they
considered him a fake.

1395
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,200
The pictures even came to the
attention of author Sir Arthur

1396
01:26:56,200 --> 01:27:00,040
Conan Doyle, who fully believed
in the legitimacy of the photos,

1397
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:03,160
considering them clear and
visible evidence of supernatural

1398
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:04,560
phenomena.
Phenomena.

1399
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:08,640
If you can't place where you've
heard Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's

1400
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,880
name before, he literally
created Sherlock Holmes.

1401
01:27:13,480 --> 01:27:18,440
That's what he wrote Sherlock
Holmes like, super genius, mind

1402
01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:21,320
palace, etcetera.
Sherlock Holmes, which in the

1403
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:24,160
books he actually called a brain
addict.

1404
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,480
Well, that's not quite as cool
as a palace.

1405
01:27:27,480 --> 01:27:30,160
Anyway.
Sherlock Holmes would never fall

1406
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:33,800
for such trickery, but Doyle
sure did.

1407
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,440
It is worth noting that just
like with Morris Gross and his

1408
01:27:37,440 --> 01:27:40,840
obsession with Janet and proving
poltergeists were real, Sir

1409
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:45,400
Arthur Conan Doyle also lost one
of his children, his son, in

1410
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:48,600
World War One, which was
actively happening and wouldn't

1411
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:52,240
end for another year after the
fairy debacle.

1412
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:54,720
Grief really does do a number on
us, y'all.

1413
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:59,320
So those two little girls stuck
their story until Holmes passed

1414
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:03,360
away, only then revealing the
hoax, seeing that they didn't

1415
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:06,480
want to embarrass poor Doyle,
who had been such a staunch

1416
01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:08,640
supporter of their fairy
photography.

1417
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,120
The trick they used?
They traced illustrations of

1418
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:15,560
fairies from a children's book
and stuck them onto hat pins.

1419
01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:21,840
So what, like it's hard?
In 1983, Elsie was quoted as

1420
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:26,600
saying 2 village kids and a
brilliant man like Conan Doyle.

1421
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:31,760
Well, we could only keep quiet.
And in that same interview,

1422
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,040
Francis said.
I never even thought of it as

1423
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:38,720
being a fraud.
It was just Elsie and I having a

1424
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:42,080
bit of fun and I can't
understand to this day why they

1425
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:45,840
were taken in.
They wanted to be taken in.

1426
01:28:46,440 --> 01:28:49,160
Yes, you're right, they did want
to be taken in.

1427
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,560
Are you seeing how this is
related to the current story?

1428
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:56,240
They wanted to be taken in.
This quote struck me by Fred

1429
01:28:56,240 --> 01:29:00,680
Grettings in The Unexplained.
The story of the Cottingley

1430
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:04,200
Fairies was only partly created
by Elsie and Francis.

1431
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:07,520
It was much more the creation of
the media.

1432
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:13,680
Moving on to a couple more
hoaxers, there's also the Fox

1433
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:17,600
sisters Kate, 16, and Maggie,
11, and their older sister Leah.

1434
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:22,520
Around 1848 in Rochester, NY,
the two younger girls decided to

1435
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,320
scare their mother into thinking
the ghost of a dead man was

1436
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:29,480
haunting their house and
accidentally became responsible

1437
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:32,360
for the birth of spiritualism as
we know it.

1438
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:36,560
Their ruse snowballed and
escalated, and by 1849 they

1439
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:39,480
performed their alleged
mediumship to a paid audience

1440
01:29:39,480 --> 01:29:43,720
wherein they claimed the spirits
of the dead would communicate

1441
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,560
with them via taps and knocks.
William Crooks, the prominent

1442
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:51,920
physicist and chemist who also
attended the Royal College of

1443
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:55,720
Chemistry, concluded the raps
were genuine.

1444
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:59,480
He sounds like a smart guy, so
hmm strange.

1445
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:02,800
In reality, the two youngest
sisters had learned to take

1446
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:06,080
advantage of their particular
bone structure and their toes

1447
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:09,560
and had taught themselves how to
crack their toe joints to make a

1448
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:14,080
loud wrapping on the floor.
Just like with the Cottingley

1449
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:17,160
Fairy hoax, the girls tired of
the game and eventually came

1450
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:20,680
clean.
But that ship had sailed.

1451
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,600
It did nothing to slow down the
spiritualist movement and the

1452
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:26,840
new found obsession with seances
and contacting the dead.

1453
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:32,520
A poltergeist was allegedly
responsible, as poltergeists are

1454
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,320
won't to do for starting fires
at a farm.

1455
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:40,960
In 1948 Illinois.
A 13 year old girl named Wanit.

1456
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:43,760
I'm not making this up.
I did not just change the 1st

1457
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:47,960
letter of Janet's name.
Wanit also from a single parent

1458
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:52,120
family, though in her case this
little girl, her mother had left

1459
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,600
as opposed to her father, so her
father was her caretaker.

1460
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:59,520
So this little girl was made to
move in with her aunt and uncle.

1461
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:03,480
Everyone was baffled about the
source of these mysterious fires

1462
01:31:03,480 --> 01:31:06,840
that kept appearing and hadn't
started occurring until after

1463
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,400
she moved in.
And hmm, so strange.

1464
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:11,800
We don't know where these fires
are coming from or when they

1465
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:15,720
started or why, but the fires
eventually burned down multiple

1466
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:18,880
buildings on the family's
property, forcing them to move.

1467
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:23,480
The fires started seemingly at
random and seemed to only be

1468
01:31:23,480 --> 01:31:25,920
explained by pinning it on a
poltergeist.

1469
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:29,880
Which, OK, sure, this is what
I'm saying about the the harm

1470
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:33,440
and immediately jumping to
paranormal conclusions instead

1471
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:37,200
of trying to figure out what is
a naturalistic explanation here.

1472
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:41,280
Anyway, the local newspaper even
reported on the strange

1473
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,600
phenomena of fires appearing
somehow magically.

1474
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:48,640
But when the family moved to the
new house, the Deputy Fire

1475
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:52,320
Marshall had the sneaky idea to
set a box of matches in

1476
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:55,800
Plainview as a trap.
An experiment, if you will.

1477
01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:00,120
Predictably, he later found that
the matches had been moved, and

1478
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:05,760
wouldn't you know it when it
coincidently when it was

1479
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:09,480
coincidentally nearby, she
confessed to the fires.

1480
01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:12,960
And shocker, the poltergeist
stopped lighting fires

1481
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:16,880
immediately after.
A psychiatrist who had met with

1482
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,240
Janet no Wanit.
A psychiatrist who met with

1483
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:24,760
Wanit said she's a nice little
kid caught in the middle of a

1484
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:29,800
broken home.
And then there's Matthew

1485
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,120
Manning.
I'm about to tie this up in a

1486
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:33,640
neat little bow for you.
Just wait.

1487
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:39,080
The poltergeist case surrounding
Matthew Manning, a then 11 year

1488
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:43,520
old boy in 1967 Cambridge,
England, is called one of the

1489
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,600
most extraordinary outbreaks of
poltergeist phenomena of the

1490
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:50,960
20th century.
Much like Enfield and many other

1491
01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:54,720
poltergeist cases, the activity
with Matthew Manning started

1492
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:57,600
with things like items being
moved, knocking sounds, things

1493
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:00,520
flying across the room, heavy
furniture moving on its own, et

1494
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,480
cetera.
The activity, as usual, centered

1495
01:33:03,480 --> 01:33:06,240
around one child in particular,
Matthew Manning.

1496
01:33:06,480 --> 01:33:09,480
His father Derek was the first
to notice the unexplained

1497
01:33:09,480 --> 01:33:13,120
activity and it is, I think,
also worth noting that Derek was

1498
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:16,400
already interested in psychical
research prior to his son

1499
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:20,080
suddenly manifesting psychical
phenomena in his own home.

1500
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:24,520
Things escalated to a weird
degree.

1501
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:28,960
Spirits were allegedly using
Matthew Manning's hand to write

1502
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:33,400
messages, AKA automatic writing.
Then one particular week in

1503
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:39,760
1971600, some odd signatures
appeared on the walls of

1504
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,760
Matthew's bedroom, all in
different handwriting, as if 600

1505
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,080
different spirits had left their
autographs on the walls.

1506
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:51,400
In 1974, just three years prior
to the Enfield poltergeist case,

1507
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:55,720
when Matthew Manning saw Uri
Geller bending spoons on TV, he

1508
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:59,400
was inspired to try it himself.
Scientists and researchers even

1509
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:01,600
studied Matthew's skill at metal
bending.

1510
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,280
And here's the bit with the bow
that I'm tying for you.

1511
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:09,560
In the Hodgson's house in
Enfield, investigators with the

1512
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:14,720
SPR found a torn out page of a
magazine article all about

1513
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,560
Matthew Manning's poltergeist
activity and special powers.

1514
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,840
In case I forgot to mention it
earlier, Janet would bend

1515
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:25,040
spoons.
That was like a whole thing is

1516
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:27,000
that she was able to bend
spoons.

1517
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:31,920
Although actually, if you look
at Gross and Playfair's notes, I

1518
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:35,400
think specifically she was
unable to do it unless she was

1519
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:39,680
left alone in a room and she was
unable to do it when supervised.

1520
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,280
But that was one of the things
that she was able to do.

1521
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:49,280
Was Ben Spoons Interesting.
It's almost as if Janet tore

1522
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:51,840
that page out of the magazine
and was like, yes, good.

1523
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:54,800
This will keep me busy this
summer, since the iPad hasn't

1524
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:58,600
yet been invented.
And to be clear, Janet and

1525
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,560
Margaret were both caught on
multiple instances playing

1526
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:04,600
tricks.
Playfair and Gross both reported

1527
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:07,320
this, but were largely
unbothered by it, dismissing

1528
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:09,520
those occasions as the girls
just seeing what they could get

1529
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:12,760
away with.
In fact, the men seem to be of

1530
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,200
the mind that having caught the
girls trying to trick them

1531
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,840
actually made all the times that
they hadn't caught the girls

1532
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:21,240
tricking them even more likely
to have been actual spiritual

1533
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:22,760
phenomena.
But I'm not.

1534
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,720
Rather than having a good long
think and saying to themselves,

1535
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:33,760
I'm just now internally asking
myself in quite a worried way

1536
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:38,680
whether I might have made an
error instead.

1537
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:40,680
Said Playfair.
And this house is haunted.

1538
01:35:41,480 --> 01:35:45,520
Janet's expression gave the game
away at once, though I said

1539
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:49,160
nothing about the incident.
Later that day Gross gave her a

1540
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,120
very good talking to, after
which she spent a good hour in

1541
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:55,920
the bathroom having a sulk.
We never mentioned it again, and

1542
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,480
I do not think she played any
more such tricks.

1543
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:02,160
The fact that I had spotted the
trick at once encouraged me to

1544
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:05,120
think that I would have spotted
earlier tricks had there been

1545
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:08,360
any, and the fact that Janet
confessed without much prompting

1546
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:10,640
suggested that she was not a
natural liar.

1547
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:16,520
So I've heard people, this is
listen, I've heard people,

1548
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:21,360
including Gross's own son, say
that Gross had kids of his own.

1549
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:24,640
So he was very familiar with
what kids were like and he could

1550
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,560
always tell when they were
lying.

1551
01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:30,880
But could he?
I think maybe this is OK.

1552
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:34,000
I know it wasn't Gross that was
saying that, but just look, bear

1553
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:37,160
with me.
Especially in the 70s, fathers

1554
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:39,640
were more likely to be the
parent working outside of the

1555
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:42,760
home, leaving their wives as
primary caretakers of the

1556
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:46,040
children even when the fathers
were home.

1557
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:50,360
I mean, even today though, if a
father says that his kids are so

1558
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:54,320
well behaved with him while
they're feral with mom, it's not

1559
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:57,480
because that he's just that good
at parenting.

1560
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:00,800
It's not because he's just that
good with his kids.

1561
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:04,360
It's not because his wife is
being dramatic and that his kids

1562
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:09,040
are always good.
No, it's because his kids don't

1563
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:13,680
feel as psychologically safe
with him as they do with mom and

1564
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:17,160
the instances where the mom is
the main caretaker.

1565
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:20,360
So obviously I'm not making a
blanket statement.

1566
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:22,840
If the father is the caretaker
and the kids feel more

1567
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:25,760
psychologically safe with the
father, that is who they're

1568
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:30,080
going to be less behaved with.
But because this is the 70s and

1569
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:33,080
that is not how it was, the
mother was the main caretaker.

1570
01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:36,440
And so the father would be far
less psychologically safe for

1571
01:37:36,440 --> 01:37:40,000
these kids.
So if a kid doesn't feel as

1572
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:43,840
psychologically safe with a
caretaker, then they're not

1573
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,320
going to be as bad, quote UN
quote.

1574
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:47,640
They're not going to act up as
much.

1575
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:53,040
It's much, it's much safer.
It's it's much safer for kids to

1576
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,680
explore limits and boundaries
with the parent that they do

1577
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,440
have a closer bond with and feel
safe enough to do so with.

1578
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:03,480
So no, I highly doubt that any
of the many men involved in this

1579
01:38:03,480 --> 01:38:09,320
case had any idea about what
kids are actually truly capable

1580
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:12,360
of when it comes to mischief and
bad behavior.

1581
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,200
As for how Janet and Margaret
might have pulled off such a

1582
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:18,600
convincing hoax, skeptical
magician Melbourne Christopher

1583
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:22,360
wrote about how such tricks can
be done in other poltergeist

1584
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:25,920
cases by other children.
For instance, regarding the

1585
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:31,400
Seaford, yeah, Seaford word.
Regarding the Seaford

1586
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:35,800
poltergeist case wherein the
caps from bottles would

1587
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:39,840
purportedly pop open in rooms no
one was in.

1588
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:43,200
This is a quote directly from
his book Sears.

1589
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:46,400
And hold on, I'll tell you in a
second.

1590
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:50,240
Here it is.
I mentioned earlier that no one

1591
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:54,840
saw a cap pop from a bottle.
Noises were heard, then bottles

1592
01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:58,960
were found open on their sides.
People assumed the noises were

1593
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:01,600
made by the bottles.
Could the bottles have been

1594
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:04,480
opened and overturned before the
noise was made?

1595
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:07,360
Can this simple strategy fool
anyone?

1596
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:10,960
Yes, it can.
This is exactly the system I

1597
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:14,280
used to baffle the riders and
investigators who came to my

1598
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:17,000
apartment.
How were the Seaford noises?

1599
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:20,000
Made.
As Mr. Herman did not invite me

1600
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:22,640
to his home to witness the
phenomena, I cannot say

1601
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:26,040
precisely.
I do know that hearing is the

1602
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:28,320
easiest of the five senses to
deceive.

1603
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:32,440
If a sound is heard in a house
and someone says that came from

1604
01:39:32,440 --> 01:39:36,360
the bedroom and starts in that
direction, others will follow

1605
01:39:36,400 --> 01:39:40,120
and accept the location.
If a disturbance is expected in

1606
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:43,800
a specific room, when a noise is
heard, attention focuses on that

1607
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:45,960
room.
On one occasion, I leaned

1608
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,640
against the door frame of my
living room with my hands behind

1609
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,240
my back when someone else was
speaking.

1610
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:54,040
I made a quick rap with the
knuckles of my right hand

1611
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:56,960
against the frame and
immediately turned my head

1612
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:00,000
toward the hall.
This is what magicians call

1613
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,280
misdirection, diverting
attention from the place where

1614
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:07,600
the secret action takes place.
Quoting a different poltergeist

1615
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:11,280
case that he wrote about.
This is the last thing that I

1616
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:14,400
will say on what?
Like it's hard.

1617
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:19,040
However, as another 11 year old
girl insisted after confessing

1618
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,800
to playing poltergeist to
attract attention in an earlier

1619
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:25,080
case, I didn't throw all those
things.

1620
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:27,440
People just imagined some of
them.

1621
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:32,160
Yep.
Before we wrap up, I wonder if

1622
01:40:32,240 --> 01:40:35,640
if you're anything like me,
which, God, for your sake, I

1623
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:38,720
really hope that you're not.
But if you are, you may have

1624
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:44,240
noticed that everyone glosses
over Johnny Hodgson.

1625
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:46,800
He was a year younger than
Janet.

1626
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:48,600
So, you know, there's there's
four kids, right?

1627
01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:51,240
But where's Johnny?
Johnny's not mentioned anywhere.

1628
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:55,200
Like, yeah, you'll hear at most
people talk about how he was

1629
01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:57,600
away at boarding school, and
then you'll barely hear another

1630
01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,560
word about him.
The majority of the focus, of

1631
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:02,640
course, is on Janet.
It's the Janet Show.

1632
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:04,920
And then a little bit on
Margaret and then even less

1633
01:41:04,920 --> 01:41:07,120
little light smattering a focus
on Billy.

1634
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:11,200
But I don't know, I don't know,
something about Johnny stood out

1635
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:14,040
to me right away with this case.
I was like, there's a story

1636
01:41:14,040 --> 01:41:17,160
here, I can smell it, but
there's just so little

1637
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:19,360
information about him.
Like I wanted to know what

1638
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:22,480
boarding school and, and, and
why.

1639
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:27,200
And at first, I thought maybe
Johnny had actually started all

1640
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,600
of this like he was home when
the activity first began.

1641
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:34,360
He was there when WPC heaps
arrived on the scene.

1642
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:38,680
And Playfair's book says that it
was Johnny and Janet who first

1643
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:40,840
witnessed the strange sounds
that got their mother's

1644
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,120
attention, not Janet and
Margaret.

1645
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,320
So that had me thinking that
maybe Johnny had been behind the

1646
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:48,120
initial prank.
You know, maybe he was

1647
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:49,760
discovered.
Maybe he was sent away to

1648
01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:52,720
boarding school as punishment.
And then Janet picked up the

1649
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:56,360
torch, so to speak, in which
torch is not a British

1650
01:41:56,360 --> 01:41:59,160
flashlight.
It's like the mantle Janet

1651
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,480
picked up.
She took the baton, right?

1652
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:05,280
She took something in her hand.
She continued.

1653
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,320
The poltergeist prank.
That's how I kind of felt about

1654
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:09,440
it.
I thought it was a pretty good

1655
01:42:09,440 --> 01:42:11,280
theory.
But actually, as it turns out,

1656
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:15,280
Johnny had been sent away to the
Wavington House School, a

1657
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:18,800
residential school for
maladjusted boys, a boarding

1658
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:22,960
facility for up to 50 boys aged
7 to 16.

1659
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:26,200
He had been sent away to that
when he was about 7:00.

1660
01:42:26,480 --> 01:42:29,360
So that was like 3 or 4 years
prior to the beginning of the

1661
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:31,960
activity.
So that theory was out.

1662
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:36,320
And then Janet, as an adult said
that Johnny was quote UN quote,

1663
01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:38,800
just a handful.
So they sent him away.

1664
01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:42,000
Oh, OK.
Was it really that simple

1665
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:45,880
though?
So also maladjusted in the 70s

1666
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,560
could mean anything.
It could mean anything abnormal.

1667
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:52,360
So one book that I that I
referenced that was published in

1668
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:55,720
1965 literally called
Maladjusted Boys.

1669
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:58,240
That's the name of the book,
Maladjusted Boys.

1670
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:00,440
I felt like it was definitely
the right thing to be reading to

1671
01:43:00,440 --> 01:43:02,240
figure out what is Maladjusted
Boys mean.

1672
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:07,320
It mentions various phobic and
anxiety states, bed wetting,

1673
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:13,840
dishonesty, nervous eczema,
asthma, and sexual difficulties.

1674
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:19,560
So I'd also wager that kids with
untreated and unrecognized ADHD

1675
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:22,840
would have ended up there too.
But also, a good chunk of boys

1676
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:25,840
at these schools may have also
been on probation from juvenile

1677
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,960
court.
So it still doesn't explain why

1678
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:30,840
he was sent away.
But get this.

1679
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:34,480
In the early days of the Enfield
case, the Daily Mirror suggested

1680
01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:37,720
to Peggy that they contact the
Society for Psychical Research

1681
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:41,360
for help, to which Peggy had
apparently fainted.

1682
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:46,720
In response, Playfair wrote she
had misunderstood what he had

1683
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:49,200
just said.
She thought he was going to call

1684
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:53,040
in a psychiatrist when he said
psychical research.

1685
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:57,360
She had some reason to be wary
of members of this profession,

1686
01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:01,320
for the local child welfare
psychiatrist had apparently been

1687
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:05,400
responsible for having Johnny
Hodgson sent to what his mother

1688
01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:09,560
always referred to as
residential school, which was in

1689
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,080
fact a school for problem
children.

1690
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:16,400
Yet neither the psychiatrist nor
anybody else had ever explained

1691
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:19,040
to Missus Hodgson what Johnny's
problem was.

1692
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:22,680
All she knew about the
psychiatrists was that one of

1693
01:44:22,680 --> 01:44:26,200
them had taken her eldest boy
from home, and that was all she

1694
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:29,240
wanted to know.
So that's kind of fucked up.

1695
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:33,520
But Johnny did go back home to
Green Street during holidays and

1696
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:36,520
on some weekends though, so he
wasn't completely absent from

1697
01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:39,480
the Enfield case.
In fact, the activity would

1698
01:44:39,480 --> 01:44:42,880
sometimes get much more chaotic
and dramatic when he was home,

1699
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:45,560
to the point where Missus
Hodgson would admit to being

1700
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:49,680
anxious about him coming home
from school because of how much

1701
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:52,280
more stressful things would be
when he was there.

1702
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:57,560
So my personal head cannon for
Johnny is that he and Janet got

1703
01:44:57,560 --> 01:45:01,920
along the best of the siblings
and that Johnny just cracked

1704
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:05,880
Janet up and that they sort of
fed off of each other's mischief

1705
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,800
making.
That's genuinely just my read.

1706
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:12,360
Maybe I'm projecting, but that's
how I'm picturing it.

1707
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:16,200
You know, my original theory
involved Janet hoping to be sent

1708
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:19,720
away to go to school with
Johnny, even though the school

1709
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:22,000
was just for boys and there was
no way that that was going to

1710
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:24,320
happen.
That was my original read.

1711
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:26,960
Was that like, she did not want
to be there without Johnny.

1712
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:29,920
She wanted to go be with Johnny,
so she was going to also be bad,

1713
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:32,240
and then maybe she would also be
sent up to go to school with

1714
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:33,480
Johnny.
I don't know.

1715
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:38,560
I'm not a professional, but if
you noticed earlier that Johnny

1716
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:41,920
wasn't listed in the credits for
any of the documentaries or The

1717
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:45,360
Conjuring 2, yeah, it's not for
a good reason.

1718
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:51,880
Johnny died at only 14 of an
unspecified type of cancer, so

1719
01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:55,240
we'll never know his story, but
I wanted to at least shed a

1720
01:45:55,240 --> 01:46:00,440
little bit of very weak light on
him since he's so often glossed

1721
01:46:00,440 --> 01:46:03,120
over.
But he was still experiencing

1722
01:46:03,120 --> 01:46:06,200
everything that his family did,
just to a slightly lesser

1723
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:11,200
extent.
So this is where I was going to

1724
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:15,920
originally wrap up the podcast
and know that doesn't mean that

1725
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:20,600
I'm not wrapping it up.
What it means is that I have

1726
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:25,400
come across some new information
after I was almost finished with

1727
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:29,080
this episode.
So here it is.

1728
01:46:29,080 --> 01:46:36,680
It seems that the same year that
Mister Hodgson left his family,

1729
01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:39,920
Johnny was sent away to
Wavington House.

1730
01:46:40,480 --> 01:46:45,000
For the life of me, I cannot
find which one happened first,

1731
01:46:45,440 --> 01:46:49,200
but I've got a sinking suspicion
about those things being

1732
01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:53,520
connected, a suspicion that
started when I was watching the

1733
01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:56,760
Apple Plus documentary,
Something About Janet.

1734
01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:00,800
Something in the back of my mind
was telling me that there was

1735
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:05,360
something much darker and much
more harmful and much more

1736
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:09,080
sinister than poltergeists
happening when it came to Janet,

1737
01:47:09,480 --> 01:47:13,120
but I wasn't sure I'd include it
in the episode, as I mean, it

1738
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:15,720
was just a hunch.
I was just guessing.

1739
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:19,920
It was just a feeling that I
had, but after I discovered what

1740
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:24,400
I discovered, which was me
actually realizing that I had

1741
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:27,440
somehow never read the book The
Poltergeist Tapes by Melvin

1742
01:47:27,440 --> 01:47:30,800
Willen, the honorary archive
officer for the Society for

1743
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:35,320
Psychical Research, well, I
realized I had to tell you all.

1744
01:47:35,320 --> 01:47:38,760
It was my duty to tell you guys.
So rather than rewrite the

1745
01:47:38,760 --> 01:47:41,440
episode, I'm tagging it on here
at the end.

1746
01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:46,440
And by the way, here's a trigger
warning for CSA, otherwise known

1747
01:47:46,440 --> 01:47:51,200
as childhood sexual abuse.
According to Gross and Playfair,

1748
01:47:51,440 --> 01:47:56,240
Mr. Hodgson, Janet's father, was
mentally disturbed and had

1749
01:47:56,240 --> 01:48:00,080
needed medical treatment for an
unspecified mental condition.

1750
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:07,240
When Mr. Hodgson was 15, he was
convicted of child molestation,

1751
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:10,920
which he apparently told Janet
and Margaret about.

1752
01:48:11,440 --> 01:48:14,880
For reasons that I just can't
understand, but I guess I can't

1753
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:18,040
understand the entire situation,
so there's that.

1754
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:23,680
Playfair stated in his own
records that he thought that

1755
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:27,640
Janet may have suffered a sexual
attack in Durant's Park

1756
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:31,920
graveyard last June when she was
beaten up quite badly.

1757
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:37,600
Reason being that in the
millions of things that Bill

1758
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:43,120
said, he kept talking about
Durrance Park and he claimed to

1759
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:46,000
have been buried in Durrance
Park, which is actually

1760
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:48,640
incorrect.
He was buried in a farther away

1761
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:53,160
graveyard, but Durrance Park is
the closest graveyard to Green

1762
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:56,080
Street.
Anyway, with all of that

1763
01:48:56,080 --> 01:48:59,160
information that I just shared,
combined with how obsessed the

1764
01:48:59,160 --> 01:49:04,320
Bill voice was with sex because
it genuinely seemed difficult if

1765
01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:08,240
not impossible to keep Janet
focused on anything not sexual.

1766
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:11,520
Something you really don't see
captured in the mainstream

1767
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:15,440
coverage of this case, along
with the extreme amount of poop

1768
01:49:15,440 --> 01:49:17,400
and pee in the story for that
matter.

1769
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:22,560
But specifically, Janet would
not stop talking about sex.

1770
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:26,640
It made me sick to my stomach,
honestly, knowing that a child

1771
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:31,400
being a little too preoccupied
with sex is a sign of sexual

1772
01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:32,960
abuse.
Now.

1773
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:36,240
She was 11.
OK, puberty.

1774
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:40,080
OK, sure.
But I don't know you guys.

1775
01:49:40,560 --> 01:49:43,120
She talked about it a lot.
It was a lot.

1776
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:46,920
It was too much.
What really got me though, was

1777
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:50,840
the context surrounding the
classic sound bite you hear of

1778
01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:56,680
Janet in her Bill voice where he
says I'm invisible because I'm a

1779
01:49:56,800 --> 01:50:00,680
GHOST.
That one.

1780
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:05,320
The full context for that clip
is actually that Janet, as Bill

1781
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:12,040
says that he was on top of Janet
and naked.

1782
01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:19,160
She said as Bill, I'm on top of
Janet and I'm nude.

1783
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:24,800
OK Gross then asks why can't
Janet feel you?

1784
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:29,160
And then that is why Janet says
I'm invisible.

1785
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:32,480
And then he goes on to say,
well, why are you invisible?

1786
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:37,520
And then she goes on to say,
because I'm a GHOST, right?

1787
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:42,200
So the context for her even
saying that was Bill was naked

1788
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:44,440
and on top of her.
Huh.

1789
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:50,160
Oh boy.
At a later date, Janet again in

1790
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:55,480
her Bill voice, told a woman to
kiss me and take your clothes

1791
01:50:55,480 --> 01:50:58,240
off.
And that's just one example of

1792
01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:00,160
many that I could share with
you.

1793
01:51:01,600 --> 01:51:04,720
There are studies that show that
sexual trauma may be an

1794
01:51:04,720 --> 01:51:08,160
important contributing factor in
the development of psychosis.

1795
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:15,000
So what Janet needed was help,
not for her home and her life to

1796
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:20,080
be turned into a circus.
As I'm all about the reduction

1797
01:51:20,080 --> 01:51:22,880
of harm when it comes to the
supernatural, Whether that harm

1798
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:26,240
is strangers on Reddit replying
to people's paranormal stories,

1799
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:30,720
confidently claiming that the OP
has demons, or whether it's

1800
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:33,160
paranormal investigators who
should have realized that they

1801
01:51:33,160 --> 01:51:36,040
were just making things worse.
I really wish things had gone

1802
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:39,120
differently for the Hodgkins.
Like I wish they had gone so

1803
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:40,720
much differently and so much
better.

1804
01:51:41,480 --> 01:51:43,240
Honestly.
Sometimes the scariest part of a

1805
01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:46,080
story isn't the unexplained or
the supernatural part.

1806
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:50,040
Sometimes the scariest part is
just humans.

1807
01:51:51,160 --> 01:51:55,080
Just humans.
Belief in the paranormal can get

1808
01:51:55,080 --> 01:51:58,000
dangerous when we dismiss any
naturalistic or mundane

1809
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:02,000
explanations, such as in the
case of Janet focusing on

1810
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:04,840
alleged poltergeist activity
instead of acknowledging the

1811
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:08,640
abuse that she very well may
have suffered through.

1812
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:12,280
And just to bring this back to
the focus of the series, right

1813
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:16,800
at the end though the Warrens
were barely involved, You just

1814
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:20,280
know they can't resist A
paranormal circus, which was

1815
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:22,960
exactly what was happening in
the Hodgkins home.

1816
01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:27,160
Even though they were only there
for a couple of days, they still

1817
01:52:27,160 --> 01:52:28,960
took credit for the
investigation.

1818
01:52:29,080 --> 01:52:31,840
Not just in their book The
Demonologist, but in The

1819
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:35,760
Conjuring 2.
Ed Warren did what he promised.

1820
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:39,880
Playfair and the Hodgson family.
They made a lot of money on this

1821
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:43,200
story.
Unfortunately for Ed, he

1822
01:52:43,200 --> 01:52:46,720
couldn't spend any of it.
He died 10 years before the

1823
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:50,440
movie came out.
Interesting.

1824
01:53:01,160 --> 01:53:04,760
Thank you for joining me for
more true strange stories of the

1825
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:08,040
unexplained.
Remember that you can feel

1826
01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:12,480
afraid and not be in danger.
You're safe here with me.

1827
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:15,760
Probably.
Please follow the podcast, leave

1828
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:20,560
a rating on Spotify or Apple, or
tell your friends and foes about

1829
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:23,200
the show.
It would mean the world to me,

1830
01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:26,720
the underworld, obviously.
I mean, come on.

1831
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:28,360
Was that not?
Was that not clear?

1832
01:53:28,760 --> 01:53:32,280
Madam Strangeways is produced
and narrated by me.

1833
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:38,400
Madam Strangeways theme music is
by marina.ryan@marinamakes.co.

1834
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:43,480
Cover art is by Andrea Chisel
Roldan at Cult of Teddy on

1835
01:53:43,480 --> 01:53:46,520
Instagram.
You can submit your own true

1836
01:53:46,520 --> 01:53:50,720
strange story at
madamstrangeways.com or e-mail

1837
01:53:50,720 --> 01:53:53,480
it to
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

1838
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,600
See you soon, she said
ominously.

1839
01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:21,640
Hello.
Yeah.

1840
01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:22,880
Hello.
Goodbye.

1841
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:25,720
How he did that.
Now you're going to tell me how

1842
01:54:25,720 --> 01:54:27,240
you how you knocked that sexy
over?

1843
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:29,440
Come on, tell me how you knocked
you out.

1844
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:31,280
By the button.
You what?

1845
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:35,600
You know what parted?
By the bottom.

1846
01:54:35,680 --> 01:54:39,000
Yes, underneath.
Underneath it, yes.

1847
01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:41,040
Then what did you do?
Then what did you do?

1848
01:54:41,920 --> 01:54:43,960
Make Janet come in the room
first.

1849
01:54:44,520 --> 01:54:46,520
Why did you make?
Why did you have to make Janet

1850
01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:50,320
come in the room first so she
gets the play?

1851
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:53,760
Could you enjoy it if if
Margaret came in the room first

1852
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:58,800
or or if Mrs. Hodgson came in
the room first, could you do it

1853
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:00,440
then?
No, she's too old.

1854
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:04,080
She's too old.
Could you do it if I came in the

1855
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:05,280
room first?
No.

1856
01:55:05,280 --> 01:55:07,680
Well.
What's age got to do with it?

1857
01:55:07,760 --> 01:55:08,960
What?
What difference does it make?

1858
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:12,120
How energy?
From young people, not all fun.

1859
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:13,480
Oh, you only take energy?
Yes.

1860
01:55:14,280 --> 01:55:16,280
Why can't you take energy from
old?

1861
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:18,920
People, I use it on the day.
Pardon.

1862
01:55:19,360 --> 01:55:22,280
I use it all.
Oh, old people use more energy

1863
01:55:22,280 --> 01:55:25,480
during the day and do young
people stir it up then?

1864
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:28,680
Yes.
How do you take their energy?

1865
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:33,360
Electric shocks?
You take quite electric shocks.

1866
01:55:33,360 --> 01:55:36,920
Do you take electrical energy
then?

1867
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:42,040
Yes, I can.
If you can, I can take you can

1868
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:46,080
take electrical if you don't
take the energy.

1869
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,520
Could you tip the settee up if
you didn't take the energy?

1870
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:50,600
No, no, I couldn't.
You could possible.

1871
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:53,920
Impossible.
Yes, you always have to use

1872
01:55:53,920 --> 01:55:55,280
energy from people.
Yes.

1873
01:55:56,480 --> 01:55:58,120
Can't you take energy from
anything else?

1874
01:55:58,280 --> 01:56:01,080
No, you can't.
No.

1875
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:05,000
What else can you do with
energy?

1876
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:08,560
Tip the chairs I've pulled plugs
out.

1877
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:11,040
If you can do other things
faster.

1878
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,840
Put books through the window I.
Put books through the window.

1879
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:16,200
Who put the books through the
window?

1880
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:18,800
I did.
You did.

1881
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:22,360
I took a shortcut and put it.
I see.

1882
01:56:22,600 --> 01:56:25,960
How would you, if I'd have said
to you, you put that book

1883
01:56:25,960 --> 01:56:28,760
through the window without
breaking the window?

1884
01:56:28,760 --> 01:56:29,720
How would you have done it?
I.

1885
01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:33,360
Put the window on phone.
Sorry, I opened the window and

1886
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:36,160
thrown you out.
He would have opened the window

1887
01:56:36,160 --> 01:56:37,000
and thrown it out.
It's.

1888
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:41,000
A peggy's window fucked them.
Yeah, but could you have thrown

1889
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:43,400
it through the glass itself
without breaking the glass?

1890
01:56:44,360 --> 01:56:47,120
Yes.
How would you do that then?

1891
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:49,400
You materialize it one night
didn't.

1892
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:54,600
You dematerialize it, yes.
How do you do that then?

1893
01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:58,560
I don't know, but I taste them
here, don't I?

1894
01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:00,760
Don't know how you do it.
No.

1895
01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:03,560
A gift.
It's a gift, is it?

1896
01:57:05,960 --> 01:57:07,600
But surely you should know how
to do it.