Romanian Witches | Spooky Folklore: Muma Pădurii, Baba Cloanța & More | Ep #63

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Welcome stranger to Madam
Strange ways, where I Madam

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Strange ways narrate your true
strange stories of the

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unexplained.
Whether you're a skeptic, A

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believer, or some secret third
thing.

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Stick around after the story
where I'll share my strange

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thoughts and research about said
strange story, and along the way

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I'll also drag you down a slew
of strange rabbit holes, kicking

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and screaming if needs must.
But before we get to the true

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strange story, the strangest of
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like it's about to rain Hellcats
and Hell Hounds outside, so you

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know what that means.
Settle in for a true strange

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story here with Madam Strange
Ways.

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I think she was a witch by
Crimson Crusader.

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This is my first time writing
about this and I want your

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opinion.
I grew up in a very isolated

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rural area surrounded by forests
and mountains.

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This village was 60 miles away
from a big town.

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We had bears, wolves, wild
boars, usually things you might

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find in a wild forest in Europe.
So I was 15 at the time.

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Our garage was by the main road
and our house was down a hill

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which was 30 minutes of walking,
only accessible by foot.

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It was October around 6:00 PM.
My dad sent me to get a toolbox

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from the garage and bring it to
him at home.

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I went there and opened the
garage, got the toolbox, locked

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the door and as I was locking it
I look to my right and see this

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old lady standing there on the
side just staring into nothing.

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I said hello, no response.
I was a bit creeped out because

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I had never seen this lady
before and in a village or small

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town you know everyone.
She was dressed all in black,

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had a walking stick that was
made of wood and crooked.

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She just started walking towards
the forest and remember it was

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getting dark at this point it
was almost 7 PMI started

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following behind her.
I was curious and I was just a

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kid, a dumb kid TBH.
Now I would never follow an old

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lady into the forest.
Anyway this lady was fast so I

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followed her almost all the way
to the forest and saw her go

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into the forest which was up a
hill.

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Who does that?
Why would she go there?

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There wasn't any house in the
forest, no one ever went there

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at night for any reason,
especially in that area where

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there were so many wild,
dangerous animals.

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And why did I follow her?
At the time it felt like I was

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in a trance or something.
What do you guys think?

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Was it a witch?
Please let me know if you have

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any similar experiences.
Hello, Salute.

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Welcome to Madame Strangeways
and Crimson Crusader.

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Thank you so much for sharing
your story with us on the show.

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You did you you.
You know what, Crimson Crusader?

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I know.
You know what I just did.

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I know, you know.
But maybe not everybody knew.

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You know, y'all know, You know
the the Numa Numa song, You know

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Numa Numa.
Yay, that's Romanian.

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Did you know that's from
Romania?

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Well, I guess technically the
band is Moldovan from Moldova,

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but it's in Romanian.
That's how we're starting the

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episode.
That's how we're we're starting

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off strong here, folks.
We're starting off strong.

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Thank you so much for joining me
for another episode of Mad and

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Strange Ways.
So happy to have you, Crimson

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Crusader.
I just wanted to make sure that

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the world knew that they do know
a Romanian song.

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If someone asks you, do you know
any songs in Romanian?

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Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.

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Anyway, Crimson Crusader, thank
you so much for letting me Share

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your story on the show.
Very, very scary, very ominous.

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I love a story with dread.
I love dread.

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I love dread.
You know, I don't want to see

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the monster in a movie.
I don't want to, you know, This

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is why I will continue to say
The Blair Witch Project is my

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favorite scary movie because you
never see the Blair Witch.

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Does the Blair Witch even exist?
What's what's actually

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happening?
I don't know.

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And not knowing, it's so scary.
I know I've said it on the show

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before.
Not knowing is the worst thing

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that can happen to me is not
having an answer immediately.

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You know, maybe that's maybe
that's sure, it's some anxiety.

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Maybe it's some mild OCD.
Yeah, definitely it is those

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things.
But I hate not knowing.

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But that's what makes a story
really scary.

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So that's why I that's why I was
so drawn to this.

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Well, first of all, a Romanian
witch.

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Hello.
Like I'm not going to like I'm

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not going to share that story,
but also just not knowing the

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you know, is it a witch?
Is she a witch?

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Is she just some really weird
old lady?

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But then, you know, Crimson
Crusader, you were, you kind of

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described almost being sort of
like in a trance like state, you

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know, kind of like following
her, not really knowing why, you

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know, like that's a bad idea.
Why am I following her?

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I just feel like oh, so spooky.
Also very scary.

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So Crimson.
Well, can I call you Crimson?

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Crimson, I'm sorry that that
happened to you.

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Unless, unless you like spooky
things happening to you, in

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which case I hope more spooky
things happen to you so long as

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you are not harmed.
But if it keeps you up at night

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still and you kind of don't like
having that story, I'm very

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sorry that that happened to you.
It sounds very scary, especially

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because like, you know, if you
know everyone there and you

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don't know this old lady, you
would have you would have at

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least heard you would have at
least heard tale of a creepy old

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lady that lives in the woods.
You know, everyone will be

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talking about the crazy old
hermit lady.

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I mean, that's what I aspire to
be when I grow up.

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Honestly, I feel like, oh, I
might have grown up.

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I think I might actually be the
old crazy hermit lady, but you'd

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think you would have at least
heard whispers of her.

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But to have not even heard that?
Very, very eerie.

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Do I think she was a witch?
I don't know.

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Maybe she might have been a
witch.

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But are witches bad?
Are witches bad?

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I don't know that they are.
I know that they scare people.

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I don't think all witches are
bad.

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I think some witches are bad.
Was that witch bad?

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I don't know.
Was she kind of luring you into

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the forest?
Crimson?

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Possibly, but she didn't.
But she has survived to tell the

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tale, so maybe that means she's
a good witch.

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Or maybe she's just an old lady.
Aside from actually reminding me

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of a scene in the book Howl's
Moving Castle, Not the movie,

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but the book.
Aside from reminding me of that,

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and of course that also having
to do with witches, which I

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thought was a really interesting
coincidence, I've never actually

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heard of anything quite like
this happening.

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Especially because, yeah, what?
There's bears and wolves and

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wild boars.
Oh my, and she's just going into

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the forest where the bears and
wolves and wild bears, Oh my

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live.
And she has a weird gnarled

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stick.
Probably for witchcraft

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purposes.
But before we get into any of

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our theories and folklore, we
need to learn a little bit about

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Romania first.
It's not a lot, I promise.

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This is not like school.
School sucks.

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Stay in school though, kids.
So Romania.

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This is Wikipedia.
Romania has one of the largest

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areas of undisturbed forest in
Europe, covering almost 27% of

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its territory.
Romania also has about 50% of

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Europe's, excluding Russia,
brown bears.

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That's a lot of brown bears. 50%
of all of Europe excluding

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Russia's brown bears and 20% of
its wolves.

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Romania's got Romania's got a
lot of animals that can kill

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you.
Is Romania the Australia of

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Europe?
That just that just occurred to

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me.
Is there another country in

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Europe that has animals that
want to kill you as much as

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animals in Australia and
Romania?

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Let me know about them
strangeways@gmail.com.

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Also, fun fact, here's a trick
that you can learn if you ever

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need to identify countries by
their shape.

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Romania, if you squint, looks
like a goldfish.

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How fun.
So it's unclear exactly where in

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Romania the story is set.
However, how am I going to talk

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about Romania and not talk about
Transylvania?

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It could be in Transylvania.
You don't know.

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Crimson knows.
I could have asked Crimson.

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I could have asked you and I
didn't.

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Here we go.
Transylvania is a region, not a

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town or city, in the heart of
Romania, in the Carpathian

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Mountains.
As Americans, of course, we

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associate Transylvania with
Dracula and Vlad the Impaler,

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which is practically Dracula if
you ask some people.

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But it's also known, did you
know Transylvania is also known

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for its werewolves and
witchcraft?

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Two of the best W words by the
way, which is to say, which is

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to say, OK, which is to say that
Romania itself is also known for

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all those cool W words,
werewolves and witchcraft.

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So maybe Romania, just like the
brown bears and wolves, maybe

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Romania has a a high percentage
of all of Europe's witches.

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It's possible.
Stranger things and all that.

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But this got me thinking.
I started wondering to myself,

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Madam, I said to myself, Madam,
how common is belief in witches

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in Romania?
If Romania is known for its

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witchcraft and werewolves, does
that mean that the people in

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Romania tend to believe in those
things more often than other

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people?
Here we go.

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00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:03,360
This is from
scienceandorthodoxyaroundtheworld@projecthyphensow.org.

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According to the Religiosity and
Atheism Index released by Gallup

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International, Romania is the
most religious country in

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Europe.
It ranks 7th in the whole world

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and is the only EU country that
makes it into the top ten.

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OK.
It is also one of the very few

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countries where interest in
religion has been on the

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increase, rising from 85% to 89%
in just seven years.

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00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:32,720
From 2005 to two.
Wow, from 2005 to 2012.

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I don't know what it's at right
now, but that's a pretty big

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jump.
Wasn't there all this discussion

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in the 70s or in the late 60s
around is God dead like that

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Time magazine cover famously
depicted in Rosemary's Baby?

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00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,520
But it was actually a real
cover.

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00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,240
And here we are.
Religions on the increase, at

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00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,960
least in Romania.
But I wanted to know more about,

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you know, superstitiousness.
Superstitiousness.

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So here's a study by the
Romanian Institute for

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Evaluation and Strategy.
Sample size was about 1200

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people and they were 18 years
and older and it was taken on

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00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,080
Halloween 2014.
Here's the study.

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00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:19,240
Over 3/4 of Romanians, so 76%,
just over 3/4 believe in

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wonders, you know, meaning
unexplained wonders.

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And 65% believe in the evil eye.
Now I have talked about the evil

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eye in the Three Greek Witches
episode, but put a pin in that

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because it's not exactly the
same.

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Anyway, 20% of Romanians
consider themselves

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superstitious, which seems low.
I wonder if their definition of

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superstitious is different than
my definition of superstitious

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because 55% believe in curses,
52% believe in demons, 46%

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believe in bad spirits, which
I'm not quite sure exactly why

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00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,120
that number is different.
It feels like demons in bad

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spirits would be kind of the
same, but OK.

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Only 19% believe in phantoms.
And I'm not quite sure how

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00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,200
phantoms differentiate between
bad spirits and demons.

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00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,600
I don't know.
I don't know how you pick those

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00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,680
out, but very few people believe
in phantoms there apparently.

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00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,320
95% of course, believe in God,
like, you know, the Christian

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00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,920
God. 78% believe in angels,
which is high, 19% believe in

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witches who can foretell the
future, and 4% admit that they

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have asked a witch to tell the
future.

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00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,640
So it feels like 20% of
Romanians being superstitious

224
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,000
does feel, I feel like my
initial thought that it was low

225
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,040
feels low after learning all
those numbers.

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00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,640
But you know what else I
wondered?

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00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,880
I said to myself, Madam, how
does this compare to Americans

228
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,320
in the United States?
Here we go in a September 1996

229
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,160
Gallup poll.
We're going to get, listen,

230
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,280
pause.
We're going to get to more

231
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,240
Romanian witch stuff.
OK, just let me have this.

232
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,960
In a September 1996 Gallup poll,
a sample size of about 1025% of

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00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,440
Americans acknowledged that they
were very or somewhat

234
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,400
superstitious.
The poll also shows that younger

235
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,920
people tend to be more
superstitious than older people,

236
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,600
which is weird and not at all
what I was expecting them to

237
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,320
say.
Of course, this was 1996.

238
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,680
Obviously, things have changed,
so let's look at something more

239
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:16,840
modern.
In 2015, a different survey by

240
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,320
60 Minutes in Vanity Fair showed
half of the respondents were at

241
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,880
least a little superstitious.
So we've gone from 25%

242
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,280
superstitious to 50%
superstitious.

243
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,760
So our superstition levels are
getting off the charts.

244
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,680
So compared to Romania,
Americans are actually more

245
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,360
likely to believe in witches.
Americans, 24% of Americans

246
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:48,360
believe in witches.
In Romania, only 19% believe in

247
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,320
witches.
Although to be fair, the

248
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,160
question was witches.
Who can tell the future?

249
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:58,480
But clearly, Crimson, Crimson,
you are in the 19% of Romanians

250
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,960
who believe in witches.
And Speaking of witches, yes,

251
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,480
we're here.
Finally, Romanian witches.

252
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,480
Are you a Romanian witch?
Let me know,

253
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,200
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.
For that matter, Baba Yaga, if

254
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:13,920
you're listening, I know you're
not Romanian.

255
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,640
But if Baba Yaga is listening,
girl, you know I want to hear

256
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,200
from you. e-mail me,
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

257
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,760
You are my hero.
So Romania has a long history of

258
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,280
witches and fortune tellers and
healers.

259
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,800
And you know what?
Let's just go ahead and wrap the

260
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,520
Band-Aid off.
You may already be you are

261
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,960
already familiar with Romani
healers and witches and fortune

262
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,440
tellers.
Unfortunately what we have

263
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,280
typically referred to them as
are gypsies, which is not a term

264
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,760
that they appreciate.
So instead we say Roma or

265
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,320
Romani.
Or if you really want to talk

266
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,760
specifically about the itinerant
like nomadic fortune tellers and

267
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,680
caravans, then traveler Traveler
works.

268
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,200
OK, so this is from phmuseum.com
written by Lucia Blayeva.

269
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,960
So the term the Romani term.
So the Romanian term for witches

270
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,840
or fortune tellers or healers is
Veraji Tuare.

271
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,440
And as always I do practice my
pronunciation but I do not speak

272
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,520
Romanian so apologies.
So here's the little brief

273
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,960
snippet for you.
In the past, fortune telling had

274
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,680
a strong tradition within many
traveling Roma groups wandering

275
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,640
across the European area.
Fortune telling abilities were

276
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,560
primarily attributed to older
women, undoubtedly for their

277
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,240
lifelong experiences.
Their potential clients were to

278
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,880
be found anywhere in the streets
of the villages and towns where

279
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,000
the caravans happened to have
stopped before the revolutionary

280
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,400
year 1989, Romanian witch's work
was affected by the communist

281
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,560
regime which prohibited fortune
telling and witching activities.

282
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,000
Which I love that phrase,
witching activities.

283
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000
I think I'm going to need to
start using that anyway.

284
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,960
The communist regime prohibited
fortune telling and witching

285
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,200
activities under the threat of
imprisonment, but in recent

286
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,280
years the popularity of their
services is again on the upsurge

287
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,040
and the topic is widely
discussed at home and in the

288
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,640
media.
On the other hand, Romanian

289
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,400
witches names are mentioned in
police reports and they are

290
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,200
charged with blackmail and with
manipulating their clients.

291
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,960
So clearly the sentiment about
witches has not completely

292
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,960
changed since the times of the
communist regime, since the

293
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,760
times of the communist regime,
unfortunately, and really 1989,

294
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,600
that was not that long ago.
That was really not that long

295
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,200
ago, especially for public
sentiment to have, you know,

296
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,320
fully changed and turned around.
This is from mysterious

297
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,720
adventure Tours.
Romanian witches, known as

298
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:46,000
Witches of the Balkans or or
again Vrajitwade in Romanian,

299
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,880
are practitioners of folk magic
and witchcraft, traditions that

300
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,560
have been passed down through
generations in Romania.

301
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,920
These traditions often blend
elements of Pagan rituals,

302
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,160
Christian beliefs, and folklore.
Romanian witches are known for

303
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,320
their diverse practices, which
may include casting spells,

304
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,640
divination, herbalism, and
ritualistic ceremonies.

305
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:11,920
If you can hear Cleocatra
scratching on the recording room

306
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,640
door, well then that's good
luck.

307
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,320
That's a sign of good luck.
She has blessed you with good

308
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,120
luck on this day, one of the
most.

309
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,000
This continues.
One of the most famous and

310
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,360
enduring symbols of Romanian
witchcraft.

311
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,680
Is the Strigoi, a type of
vampire or a malevolent spirit

312
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,640
in Romanian folklore.
No vampires.

313
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,360
Romanian Romania Witches are
believed to have the power to

314
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,560
ward off or protect against
strigoi through various magical

315
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,640
means.
So witches are good.

316
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,360
They're on your side.
See Crimson?

317
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,120
What if that witch was like
setting wards and stuff to

318
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:51,240
protect you from vampires?
You're welcome.

319
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,200
Or, you know, maybe this is a
witch and maybe she is a hermit

320
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:57,840
witch and she just wants to be
left alone.

321
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,000
But she had to venture out of
the woods to go, I don't know,

322
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,480
run an errand.
And she's so charismatic that

323
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,720
you just couldn't help Crimson.
You just couldn't help but

324
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,280
following in her wake.
Maybe she needed to buy some

325
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,040
crystals.
She had to go to the crystal

326
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,280
store, The witchy new age
crystal crystal store playing

327
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,040
Stevie Nicks.
Do y'all have one of those in

328
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,200
your in the town where this
happened, which was like 60?

329
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,200
What was it like 60 miles or
something away from anything

330
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,280
else?
Did you have one of those new

331
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:30,880
age shops?
Probably not.

332
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,960
OK, but this is this.
Here we go.

333
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,480
We're getting into Romanian
folklore.

334
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,680
This is not a witch from
Wikipedia in Romanian folklore.

335
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:41,760
Pause.
I didn't.

336
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,520
I didn't hold on.
I didn't research how to

337
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:49,000
pronounce this.
OK, starting over and Romanian

338
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,560
folklore, Muma Paruri is an ugly
and mischievous or old madwoman.

339
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,960
Wait, is an ugly and mischievous
or mad old woman living in the

340
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:03,200
forest in the heart of the
virgin forests, in a Hut or

341
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,760
cabin or an old tree?
And if this is already sounding

342
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:12,920
a little bit like another old
evil witch that you may have

343
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,040
heard of from European folklore,
hold on, hold on.

344
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,400
Give me a second.
Mumba Perduri is also the

345
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,360
protector of the animals and
plants, brewing potions and

346
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:25,320
helping injured animals.
So see, like the herbalism that

347
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,400
we just talked about from from
traditional Romanian witches.

348
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,200
That's what she's doing.
But this is she's not a witch,

349
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:32,800
OK?
She's not a witch.

350
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,480
Don't get it.
Don't get it twisted.

351
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,360
She's just a mischievous or mad
old woman.

352
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,880
It does sound like she's a
witch, but she's not.

353
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,480
But she does cure the forest if
it is dying, and she keeps

354
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,920
unwanted trespassers away by
driving them mad and scaring

355
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,640
them.
So Crimson, are you a

356
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,080
trespasser?
Were you an unwanted trespasser?

357
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,040
Was she perhaps driving you mad
to keep you away?

358
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,400
She can also be associated with
witches, like the witch from the

359
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,320
story of Hansel and Gretel, but
she is a neutral creature,

360
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,920
harming only those who harm the
forest, which Crimson is

361
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,200
probably why she didn't harm
you.

362
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,280
You passed the vibe check.
OK?

363
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,240
Wikipedia continues.
Mumba Perduri is a spirit of the

364
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,160
forest in a very ugly and old
woman's body.

365
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,120
Which rude.
Can we maybe not comment on

366
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,080
people's bodies?
Thank you.

367
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,840
Sometimes she has the ability to
change her shape, which is

368
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,160
something that you hear in so
much folklore.

369
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,120
So many different creatures in
folklore have the ability to

370
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:35,440
change their shape.
It makes you wonder why?

371
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,400
It makes you wonder two things.
It makes you wonder 1.

372
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,160
So if this is so common amongst
all these different cultures,

373
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,120
does that mean that our
ancestors were definitely

374
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,280
encountering something that
shape shifted?

375
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,440
What were they encountering?
Do they still exist?

376
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:57,600
And it also makes you wonder
maybe.

377
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:06,880
Maybe maybe this is kind of like
how we used to think that bees

378
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,880
came from like cow carcasses,
you know what I mean?

379
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,160
Because we just kind of didn't
understand how that worked.

380
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,120
Or, you know, again, maybe it's
#3 maybe it's the third

381
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,160
question.
You know, how I talk about the

382
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,320
fanficification of, of, you
know, folklore and, and

383
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,640
mythology, how people just kind
of change things.

384
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,600
Maybe they were trying to scare
their kids, you know, to say,

385
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,600
oh, well, I know that person
didn't look like what you think

386
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,280
Mumma Powdery looks like.
But in fact, she can shape

387
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,080
shift.
She can shape shift, Yeah.

388
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,880
So she was definitely watching
you.

389
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,280
And if you don't go to sleep,
she's going to eat you.

390
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,240
You know, just makes you wonder.
And it's so funny because I

391
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,080
completely did not remember
making this note, which I did

392
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,720
like a week ago.
But the next line on the next

393
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,800
line of my notes is she is
thought to attack children.

394
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,280
And because of this, a large
variety of spells are used

395
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,440
against her to protect the
children.

396
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,920
Her name literally means mother
of the forest.

397
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:09,920
However, she kidnaps little
children and enslaves them in

398
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,960
one popular story.
Popular and one popular story of

399
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,280
child enslavement.
She tries to boil a little girl

400
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,240
alive in a soup.
You're not going to get a lot,

401
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,080
you know you're not going to get
a lot out of that little girl.

402
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,320
You got to have.
There's got to be better choices

403
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:30,520
of things to put in a soup.
Or you could argue maybe you got

404
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,480
a Stu going.
However, the little girl's

405
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,960
brother outsmarts her and pushes
the woman monster into the oven

406
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,960
instead.
Similar to the story of Hansel

407
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,960
and Gretel.
Hansel in Gretel, Yeah.

408
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,880
The story ends on a happy note,
though, when all the kids are

409
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,440
free to go back to their
parents.

410
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,880
Yay.
Here's one more fun fact about

411
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,040
Muma Peduti.
Instead of saying she's ugly,

412
00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,760
instead of calling a woman ugly,
Romanians sometimes say she

413
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:06,200
looks like Muma Peduti.
Which, again, which can we like?

414
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,560
Can we not?
Can we not can we leave her

415
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,840
alone?
Leave her alone now, some say.

416
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,400
Some say that this next
folkloric old woman is related

417
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,240
to Muma Parudi and her name is
Baba Klansa.

418
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,560
If the Baba in Baba Klansa is
reminding you of Baba Yaga,

419
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,320
which is apparently the correct
way to pronounce Baba Yaga yaga,

420
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,280
the emphasis goes on the second
syllable.

421
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,840
Anyway.
If Baba is reminding you of Baba

422
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,400
Yaga, that's because it is
common for people to confuse the

423
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,240
two or to just say that Baba
Klansa is just a Romanian

424
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,320
version of Baba Yaga, who is of
course Russian, not Romanian.

425
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,440
Baba Klansa is a completely
different character than Baba

426
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,680
Yaga, and I don't think she
would appreciate you mixing them

427
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,440
up.
In fact, I don't think Baba Yaga

428
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,600
would appreciate that either, so
maybe think twice next time

429
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,640
before you lump all the babas
together.

430
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,960
So here we go.
This is from a dark rainbow on

431
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,600
Tumblr, which has a shocking
amount of well researched

432
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,000
folklore.
Just Tumblr in general, but

433
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,600
specifically a dark rainbow.
Here we go.

434
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,160
Baba Klansa is one of the
central witches of Romanian

435
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,840
fairy tales and a well known
figure of the Carpathian

436
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,200
folklore.
But there is already a

437
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,240
difference established between
her and the Russian Baba Yaga.

438
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,680
By her very name indeed, Klansa
means an old woman in Romanian

439
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,240
an ugly woman, a toothless
woman.

440
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,040
Not only does this name evoke A
toothless hag, it also insists

441
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,080
upon her mouth, because Klansa
is a pejorative name for a

442
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,680
mouth.
So the Babaklansa is a figure

443
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,800
associated with the mouth as
much as the decrepit, toothless

444
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,840
whole of an old ugly woman, as
the devouring maw of the fairy

445
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,080
tale monster, and as the mouth
from which ancient wisdom and

446
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,960
magical secrets come from.
As such, in fairy tales, she is

447
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,600
the monster to fight and avoid
as much as the magical woman

448
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,960
that will help the hero in his
fight against a supernatural

449
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,720
power, guide a lost traveler, or
assist a woman with her tragic

450
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,640
love story.
We love a complicated character

451
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,840
who does not love a complicated
hero or an anti hero.

452
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,080
Some stories depict Baba Klansa
exactly like the evil old hag

453
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,760
witch in Hansel and Gretel.
And that's probably what a lot

454
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,080
of people picture when they
think of any kind of old

455
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,040
European witch, right?
And you know, there's reasons

456
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,200
for that.
There's reasons that we all have

457
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,760
this one image of an old haggard
witch.

458
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,360
I know I've referenced this
before but if you have not

459
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:50,240
already listened to the podcast
called Witches or Witch, it's

460
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,880
one of the two Which one?
Unclear which.

461
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,760
Or Witches by BBC.
It's a multi part series and it

462
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,760
goes deep into where the origins
of witches came from.

463
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,960
And that includes where we get
our modern understanding of what

464
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,680
scary old witches look like and
why they're all old women and

465
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,400
scary old women, you know?
And if she is ever pretty, she's

466
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,920
also secretly not pretty.
She's also secretly old and evil

467
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,600
and she's tricking the hero to,
you know, see what I mean?

468
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,320
There's something, there's a lot
there.

469
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,880
And so I really recommend
listening to the podcast because

470
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,960
because they do a much better
job of explaining that.

471
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,200
But wait, there's more.
In addition to Baba Klansa,

472
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,440
there's also Baba Huruka.
Here we go, Wikipedia.

473
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,160
The Baba Horuka is a folktale
character, an old witch who

474
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,000
lives alone in a cavern within
the depths of the woods because

475
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,400
she is afraid of humans.
See, See.

476
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,320
They're more afraid of us than
we are of them.

477
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,080
Isn't that what you?
Isn't that what you say to make

478
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,560
yourself feel better?
Because not all witches, I tell

479
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,400
you what, not all witches are
afraid of humans.

480
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,320
Anyway, moving on, this is still
Wikipedia.

481
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,600
She typically uses skulls, human
or animal, for her magic

482
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,120
rituals.
Horka is a depreciative term for

483
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,760
an old woman.
Again, what?

484
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,320
An ugly woman, or a wicked
woman, or all three at once?

485
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,480
Can we, What is it?
Are there?

486
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,680
Is there, I'm, I'm curious, are
there as many?

487
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,000
Are there as many rude germs for
old men as there are for old

488
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,240
women, especially in folklore?
Why is it?

489
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,560
Why are there so many anyway?
Horca also means skull, hence

490
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,960
why the witch uses them to
perform her spell work.

491
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Skull work, skull magic, that's
pretty cool.

492
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,080
I mean come on, that's that's
pretty cool.

493
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,840
That's pretty metal.
Of all of them, I'm kind of

494
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,320
leaning towards Baba Horca
honestly.

495
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,240
She seems the most metal.
But one more thing on her.

496
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,320
Because yes, all of these
witches, some of them are not

497
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,440
witches.
This one is a witch.

498
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,840
Baba Klansa, also a witch.
Baba Yaga Russian, a witch.

499
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,560
But then going back up to Mama
Paduti.

500
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,880
Nope, Muma Paduti.
She's not a witch, she's just an

501
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,000
old lady.
She's just, she's just your

502
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,080
baby, she's not a witch.
Anyway, one last note on Baba

503
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,280
Huruka, she is a character.
Hold on, let me explain where

504
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,440
this is coming from.
This is actually the Romanian

505
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Wikipedia entry that I've
translated into English, which

506
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,360
is different from the English
Wikipedia, not just because of a

507
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,960
translation.
Baba Hurka is a character from

508
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,240
Romanian mythology.
She is a witch.

509
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,360
OK, she's a witch.
She came down in a bubble dog.

510
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,640
She's a witch who congeals the
waters, OK, and lives isolated

511
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,880
in a hollow or on top of a large
tree.

512
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,760
See, there were There was no
mention of a tree.

513
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,040
There was no There was no
mention of a tree in the English

514
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,080
Wikipedia.
What do you like a hollow or on

515
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,520
top of where I now I have
questions.

516
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,240
It goes on Often fairy tales
present her giving useful advice

517
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,240
to honest young men engaged in a
fight.

518
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,000
She is therefore also a
beneficial character.

519
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:08,040
Oh, see, they don't mention
anything about being ugly or

520
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,880
wicked.
Probably because if you're

521
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Romanian, reading the Romanian
Wikipedia about this character,

522
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,800
you speak Romanian.
So you kind of get, you know

523
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,240
what I mean?
That's probably something,

524
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,480
that's probably something to do
with it.

525
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,160
So in conclusion, was this a
witch from the original story

526
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,400
that I recorded 500 years ago?
Was this actually a witch or was

527
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,440
it just some old lady who didn't
like to be near people?

528
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,360
Was it Babaklansa?
We don't know.

529
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,120
Was it one of the Papas?
Was it one of the mummas?

530
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,480
I guess there's only one.
Or was it some secret?

531
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,880
Fourth thing, it does beg the
question, how did this little

532
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,440
old lady go into the forest and
not get killed by bears or

533
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160
wolves or boars?
Oh my, how?

534
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,920
I mean, I guess we don't know.
Oh, no, I guess we don't really

535
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,920
know if she survived.
What if she was confused?

536
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,000
What if she has dementia and
she's out wandering and we're

537
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,000
like, is she a witch and she Oh
no, and she legitimately needed

538
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,640
our help.
I hope that's not the case.

539
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:20,680
I hope that was just an old cool
witchy lady living her best life

540
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,760
and she befriended all the
animals in the forest.

541
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,040
But you might say, you might say
that someone living that life,

542
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,200
let's say back in the day,
right?

543
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,080
Let's say back when this kind of
folklore was getting started.

544
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,160
So we'll, we'll jump back to
like, let's let's just go to

545
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,960
1200, Say it's 1200, the year is
1200.

546
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,160
You want to just live in the
forest alone.

547
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,680
You don't want to live with all
these people.

548
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,440
You want to just get away.
You go live in the forest alone.

549
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,960
You're a woman, you're alone.
You grow, you grow old.

550
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,000
And people don't like that.
They don't like it when women

551
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,200
get old.
They don't like women when they

552
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,920
get old.
And you're just minding your own

553
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,280
business.
You're living alone in the

554
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,160
forest.
You're living off the land.

555
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,440
You know, maybe you're doing
some healing now.

556
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,960
And then because people need
healing, they come to you in the

557
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,680
forest.
They brave the forest to come to

558
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,560
you so that you can use your
knowledge of herbs to cure their

559
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,240
ailments.
And now there's whispers in the

560
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,800
village of a witch.
She lives in the forest, alone

561
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,760
in a cavern.
She's toothless and ugly.

562
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,080
And really, she's just some old
lady.

563
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,120
Like, what do you mean?
Why do we have to do this?

564
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,760
Why do we have to paint all
older women like this in

565
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,120
folklore?
It's interesting.

566
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,640
But then I feel like there's
also something to do with Maiden

567
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,080
Mother Crone.
Maiden, Mother, Crone, You know,

568
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,640
obviously those are the three
life stages of every woman.

569
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,120
I'll tell you what, I go, I go.
I went straight from Maiden to

570
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,560
Crone, straight from Maiden to
Crone.

571
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,240
And I'm having a great time with
my Crone years.

572
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,800
So what do you think?
Was it a witch?

573
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,920
Was it just some old lady living
her best life in the forest?

574
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,160
Let me know if you think that
this was some sort of

575
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,720
unexplainable phenomenon.
I realized I hadn't said it this

576
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,360
entire episode, and I think the
episode before, and that's just

577
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,040
too long.
Can't go that long without

578
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,400
saying that so if you are also
living your best Crone life or

579
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,840
if you happen to have a true
strange story that you'd like to

580
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,320
hear narrated on the show,
e-mail it to me e-mail it to me

581
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,480
right now.
I want you to I want you to

582
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,480
e-mail it to me right now so
that I can read it because I

583
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,120
can't wait.
I'm so excited and it might be

584
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,080
featured on the show.
So I'm going to need you to do

585
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,000
that right now.
Type, type, type.

586
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,560
Give me an e-mail.
Send it over right now.

587
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:51,720
Right now, because I, I can't
wait to read it.

588
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,120
Remember that you can feel
afraid and not be in danger.

589
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,280
You're safe here with me,
probably.

590
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,600
Thank you for joining me for
more true strange stories of the

591
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,639
unexplained.
I'm running A1 Madam Show here,

592
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,120
so please do me a strange solid
and follow the podcast.

593
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,960
Leave me a rating on Apple or
Spotify and maybe even join the

594
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,480
Patreon at patreon.com/madam
Strangeways for bonus content.

595
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,440
Madam Strangeways is produced
and narrated by me.

596
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,960
Madam Strangeways theme music is
by marina.ryan@marinamakes.co.

597
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,719
Cover art is by Andrea Shiselle
Roldan at Cult of Teddy on

598
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,000
Instagram.
Every strange story is shared

599
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,960
with the permission of the
author.

600
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,120
You can submit your own true
strange story to

601
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,360
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.
See you soon, she said

602
00:34:53,600 --> 00:35:15,640
ominously.
It's kind of like the ending of

603
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,640
Weapons.
Oh, that's a spoiler.

604
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,960
Don't put that in.
Lots of witches.

605
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,080
Romanian Romania.