The Conjuring 4 (The Smurls) Part 2 | The True Story of the Warrens' Paranormal Case | Ep #40

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Are you kidding me?
Diabolical insemination.

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Ed would have loved to have said
that.

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He would have loved to have said
those words.

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It's crazy to me that he didn't.
What a missed opportunity.

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God, I'm so disappointed in you,
Ed.

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Come on.
Welcome stranger to Madam

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Strange Ways, where I, Madam
Strange Ways occasionally break

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up my true strange story
narrations with deep dives about

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strange topics like Ed and
Lorraine Warren's paranormal

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case files.
This is the second and final

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episode of the Smurl family
haunting the subject of the

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latest Conjuring movie, The
Conjuring Last Rites.

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In the first episode, I read you
a short story recounting many of

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the alleged demonic encounters
that the Smurl family endured,

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and I gave you my thoughts so
far.

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So if you haven't listened to
the first episode, I hereby

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banish you until you have.
I'll go back to our usual format

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of reading your true strange
stories in the next episode, but

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for now I sense it's about to
rain Hellcats and Hell Hounds

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outside, so you know what that
means.

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On to our strange and allegedly,
possibly questionably true story

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here on Madam Strange Ways.
Quick content warning before we

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get started that this episode
includes a perhaps gratuitous

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amount of discussion about demon
sexual assault, so just FYI,

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listen with care.
Welcome to Part 2 of the Smurl

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Family Haunting, AKA the true
story behind the latest

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Conjuring film, The Conjuring
Last Rites.

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So if you haven't listened to
the first episode in the series,

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you're going to have to go back
and listen to that.

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Sorry, it's necessary reading
because otherwise I'll be making

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references to stuff that you
have no idea what I'm talking

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about.
So just as a as a quick nutshell

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reminder, what we were talking
about last time was the Smurl

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family and the haunting that
allegedly happened to them as

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described in the book written by
both Janet and Jack Smurl and

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Lorraine and Ed Warren and also
the the actual author of the

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book, Robert Curran called the
Haunted One Family's Nightmare.

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Now the year is 1986, which
means that not only are we smack

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dab right in the middle of the
Satanic Panic, which is the

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moral panic that happened in the
80s and 90s specifically

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surrounding Satan, Satan, Satan,
Satan.

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And not only that, but a ton of
horror and classic slasher films

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have come out in the 80s and the
late 70s leading up to all of

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the events that happened
allergically to the Smurl

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family.
Let's just just remember quick,

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Cliff's notes, the Smurl family,
Janet and Jack, they lived in a

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duplex with their four
daughters.

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On one side of the duplex and
then on the other side of the

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wall were Jack's parents, John
and Mary Smurl.

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So they all lived in this little
duplex in West Pittston, PA,

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about 25 minutes away from
Scranton.

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Yes, that's Scranton, and there
were a lot of crazy paranormal

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claims that they make up, but
the largest claim that they make

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that I have no doubt will be
completely left out of the

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movie.
The biggest paranormal claim

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that they make is that not only
was Jack Smurl sexually

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assaulted by demons, Janet
Smurl, his wife, was also

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assaulted by demons so sexually,
to be clear, I just cannot

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imagine that they're going to
include even a shred of any of

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that in the movie, which is
interesting because what do you

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mean?
What do you mean?

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I thought it was a true story.
Is it?

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It's based on a true story.
Why would you leave out that

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really important detail if it's
a true story?

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Anyway, moving on.
Like I said in the first

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episode, just to be clear,
sexual assault, sexual assault's

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not funny.
Which is why it's so messed up

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that the Smurls and the Warrens
and Robert Curran treated it the

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way that they did, used it as a
plot device in order to sell

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more books and more movies.
And in the case of the book, it

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is written borderline
pornographically as in zero

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respect. 0 respect given to
sexual assault.

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It's crazy to the victim, which
is Janet and Jack.

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Yeah, 0 respect there.
So anyway, hate that, but they

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talk about it, they put it in
the book.

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So you know what, we are going
to talk about it and that is

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where we are picking up here on
Part 2 of the Smurls we are

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picking up.
Right where I know that you want

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to be and that is jumping again
face first into.

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The succubus and the incubus now
right off the bat, what is a

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succubus what is an incubus one
of them is a band.

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I know that what they really are
A succubus is a female demon who

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sexually assaults men, human men
in their sleep, and an incubus

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is a male demon who sexually.
Assaults.

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Human women in their sleep OK,
we're starting This is great I

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think generally when you hear
the.

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Descriptions.
It's like, you know, demon women

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who have sex with men.
But you know, I think we got to

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call spade a spade here.
So unfortunately, this is, you

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know what, like I said, I didn't
make this bed.

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The Smurls and the Warrens made
this bed.

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I am simply having to deal with
the bed that they made.

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I am just not letting them get.
I am not letting people forget

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that they made this bed.
This is what I'm saying.

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We're talking about it.
So before I read you this

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excerpt from the book The
Haunted to show you just how

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strange, strangely specific, and
detailed the sexual encounter

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with the demons are, this
specific excerpt reads like

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smut.
So trigger warning.

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Trigger warning for NSFW
content.

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Just I didn't.
Again, I didn't write it.

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I didn't write it.
And I cannot stress to you

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enough that this is verbatim
what is written in the book The

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Haunted, written by as a
reminder, the Warrens, the

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Smurls and Robert Curran.
Now, Robert Curran was a

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journalist and he actually ended
up doing the writing of the

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book.
He wrote the book.

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OK.
And and by the way, this part of

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the story that you're about to
hear, this is not the first

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encounter with the succubus that
Jack has.

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If you'll remember, Jack had two
encounters with different

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succubi in the book, but he also
said that he had a dozen

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different encounters with the
demon or multiple demons.

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Unclear, but this is just This
is the second one from the book.

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This is This is not the scary
old hag whose body is rotting

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and it just seems like she's
taken directly from the movie

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The Shining.
Instead, this is a different,

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sexier succubus.
I assume that this was written

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entirely by Robert Curran based
off of an interview with Jack,

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meaning he heard Jack talking
about his encounter.

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And I just really wish I could
have been a family on that wall.

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Anyway, we're going to here's
here's the excerpt.

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Remember verbatim, The Haunted
Book describes the sexual

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assault of Jack Smurl.
As such, the time was dawn.

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A round red summer sun was
pushing up past clouds, already

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hazy with pollutants, casting an
almost bloody glow over the

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bedroom in which Janet and Jack
Smurl slept.

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And then, abruptly, Jack was
awake.

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A voluptuous young woman was on
top of Jack, riding him in the

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position of sexual domination
Des M.

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Despite her beauty and the
pleasure she was obviously

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enjoying, her eyes remained A
shocking and sickly neon green.

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Next to him, Janet slept.
Jack knew that she was in a deep

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psychic sleep.
Despite his prayers, the

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succubus would not be contained.
Still in the form of a beautiful

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young woman whose alabaster
nakedness was only complimented

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by the reddish glow of the
rising sun, The succubus

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plundered Jack sexually, sinking
down and then moving up on him

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several times.
I am not making this up, and

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we're not done.
He exhorted the demon to be

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gone, but he found that he was
unable to move or speak, and the

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succubus continued mounting him
once more, hair flying wildly,

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neon green eyes glowing larger
and more lurid as its mouth ran

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with the drool of satisfaction.
There is 0% chance that anyone

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Jack is not.
Jack is not, do you see?

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What I'm saying, Jack is not
giving, sorry, he's not giving

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anyone this amount of
satisfaction.

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Moving on.
The curious thing was that for

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all the movement and the
succubus put on a dazzling show

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full of tricks, Jack felt no
sexual sensation at all.

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He lay there and simply watched
the demon perform, and then it

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was over 1 moment.
He had been the pawn of Satan

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himself, and now he lay covered
with the gelatinous sticky mess,

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the same stuff the night hag had
left on him when it had reached

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a climax during his first
attack.

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I I read that this I how why?
Who, Who, when, where, why?

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Why?
Why did this happen?

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Why is this how we described
this scene?

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There's I so many, I have so
many things.

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Remember in the story, which you
may have listened to in the last

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episode, you must have.
If you're listening to this and

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you didn't listen to the last
episode, shame, shame on you.

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But the story that I read in the
beginning of the first episode

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where I specifically said she
mounted him in the dominant

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position, that is verbatim.
I said that because it's such a

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weird way to say that.
I mean, I guess it's not wrong,

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it's just weird.
It's weird.

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This is weird.
This is weird.

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And OK, before we move on, I
have to say I think we all know

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what the mysterious, gelatinous,
sticky mess left on him was.

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It's so strange.
The book treats it like a

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mystery.
The book is like, it's stinky

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and weird and he doesn't know
what it is.

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And he washed it off.
He scrubbed himself raw.

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And I'm like buddy, OK, OK,
Anyway this?

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Does not sound like the point of
view of someone who's being

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sexually assaulted.
I mean, it does say that Jack is

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like, oh, I didn't feel any
sexual sensation at all.

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And, you know, it was not good.
And that's fine.

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But this is not the point of
view of someone who's not

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enjoying it.
Put on a show, the succubus.

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Put on a dazzling show full of
tricks with her alabaster

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nakedness and her voluptuous,
beautiful young body.

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Are you kidding?
Me like Robert Curran the the

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the author, Was he writing this
one handed?

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I ask you like was this?
Literal testimony from Jack

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Smirrell.
Or is this dramatized by Robert

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Curran or Ed?
I mean if it was dramatized by

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Ed and told to Robert Curran to
really, you know, make it sexy

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maybe, I don't know.
I just feels like Curran, the

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author, feels like he was having
a really good time writing this.

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Am I wrong?
Who would write that?

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And be and he's a journalist.
He was a journalist.

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I'm telling you, somebody had a
fetish for femdom at a minimum,

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minimum.
I mean, it really feels like

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Curran was like he was just
really into it.

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And it feels like he was really
into it, which is really fucked

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up because if Jack really
believed this happened to him,

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if Jack really believed that he
was being sexually assaulted by

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demons over a dozen times.
And then he tells the story to

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be written in a book telling his
true story and this is how it's

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written.
That's so disrespectful.

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I mean like current turned this
into softcore porn.

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This is like book talk.
Book talk needs to know this

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exists.
I mean honestly, there's only

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like 2 scenes that are.
There's only two scenes that get

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pretty no.
Well, hold on, hold on,

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actually.
Because if you'll remember, Jack

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is not the only one.
Also, his wife also experiences

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some demonic sexual assault.
So you know what?

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Let's just let's just see.
Let's how did how did they treat

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that?
Did they treat that with any

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more respect?
Let's find out.

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Here is the excerpt of one of
Janet's assaults at the hands of

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the incubus.
Her fears about the incubus were

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realized the next night.
Oh, yeah.

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Because right before this
happened on like the page before

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or something, she saw a shadowy
figure, the shadowy male demon

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figure with the Cape, a cloak.
OK, she saw the figure in the

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bathroom at night when she had
gotten up to go get a glass of

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water or something, and she saw
it, and it saw her.

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He saw her, and when it turned
around and saw her, it was like

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00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,320
staring at her.
And she, it said like she knew

224
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,960
what it wanted from her.
And she found herself wishing

225
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,640
that she wasn't so exposed in
her nightgown and that she had

226
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,920
been wearing something more
substantial so that it couldn't

227
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,920
see her because she knew what it
wanted.

228
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,840
What?
OK, anyway, that's what she's

229
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,120
talking about.
So her fears about the incubus

230
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,720
were realized the next night
when Janet, relaxing next to

231
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,760
Jack on their bed, felt an
invisible hand move up her body.

232
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,720
Jack, seeing that his wife was
being attacked, grabbed the holy

233
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,760
water from the night stand.
Because remember I said last

234
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,760
time, they keep holy water all
over the house.

235
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,560
They keep it in aspirin bottles.
It's weird.

236
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,200
Grabbed the holy water from the
night stand after pulling the

237
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,920
covers off Janet.
He said in a commanding voice.

238
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,240
In the name of Jesus Christ, I
order you to leave.

239
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,160
Then Janet picked up the same
prayer.

240
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,800
In the name of Jesus Christ, I
order you to leave.

241
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,240
The unseen hands continue to
violate her, but as they split,

242
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,920
as they sprayed holy water and
uttered the words of the special

243
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,880
prayer, Janet eventually felt
the hands withdraw her body her

244
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,240
own again.
Finally, she collapsed and

245
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,920
Jack's strong and protective
embrace.

246
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,800
This is written like smut.
I mean, it's not good smut, but

247
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,600
it's.
Smut this.

248
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,520
This is written like bad smut.
It's supposed to be a true

249
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,960
story.
And where is this in the movie?

250
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,280
Guys?
The movie has come out.

251
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,120
Now that this episode's out and
the movie is out.

252
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,680
Should be, I think so.
Was the scene were these scenes

253
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,120
in the movie?
I think not.

254
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,520
So the way I see it, the
succubus incubus situation in so

255
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,000
far as it's written in the
Smurls book, it can go one of a

256
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,200
few ways.
So either Ed Warren one either

257
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,640
Ed Warren had a fascination
slash hard on for succubi and

258
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,080
incubi and pressured Robert
Curran to write about it, or two

259
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,200
Robert Curran had a fascination
slash hard on for succubi and

260
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,640
incubi that had perhaps only
been awakened while interviewing

261
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,600
the family because.
Says #3 Jack Smirrel was the one

262
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,880
who brought up the succubi
taking advantage of him.

263
00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,440
Or #4 Jack Smirrel absorbed.
Some of the horror based

264
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:05,400
succubus media that we talked
about in episode 1 and conflated

265
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,320
it with reality or the imagery
informed hallucinations that he

266
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,160
had due to his hydrocephalus,
which we also talked about in

267
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,640
the first episode being the
quote UN quote water on the

268
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,720
brain which causes delusions and
hallucinations.

269
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,800
So if we're going by Occam's
razor, which is, you know, that

270
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:30,000
the the solution with the fewest
assumptions is generally true.

271
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,720
Knowing the Warrens as we now
do, I would say that it was

272
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,800
probably Ed Warren having a kink
for succubi and incubi.

273
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,840
I think that seems like the most
likely.

274
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,120
But personally, I'm kind of
still in the Jack is

275
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,480
hallucinating and having
delusions camp.

276
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,440
But you know, two things can be.
True at once.

277
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,360
But these weirdos, These
particular weirdos.

278
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,680
And by weirdos I specifically
mean Ed Warren.

279
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,840
And now I'm saying Robert
Curran.

280
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,320
Honestly, these weirdos are far
from the first humans to think

281
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,680
about sex with demons.
Like a lot.

282
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,240
Humans have been thinking about
and writing about sex with

283
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,760
demons since ancient
Mesopotamia.

284
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,079
Seriously.
Probably even before then.

285
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,599
This is just as as far back as
we know it goes.

286
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,040
So here's a fun fact.
Is it fun?

287
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,480
Maybe it's not fun, but here's a
fact for sure about succubi and

288
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,400
incubi.
So succubi.

289
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,120
Are meant to steal men's semen,
right?

290
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:30,400
Duh.
Everybody.

291
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,760
Knows that, but unlike the
witches and what we do in the

292
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,360
shadows, they aren't using using
the stolen semen for skin care.

293
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,200
No, no no.
The intent of a succubi stealing

294
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,960
men's semen is to use it to
impregnate a human woman.

295
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,200
But you may be asking yourself,
how the hell would that work?

296
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,640
Or more likely, you're probably
asking yourself why the hell are

297
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,680
we talking about this in such
detail?

298
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,080
But here we are again.
I'm not the reason we're here.

299
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,120
OK?
You can thank Ed Warren for

300
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:06,160
this.
Succubi are said to be able to

301
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,640
shape shift into incubi, which
are the male demons who are

302
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,040
meant to impregnate human women.
Do you see where this is going?

303
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,160
You know what?
I hope that you don't.

304
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,600
I hope that your brain does not
work in such a way that you

305
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,160
don't see where this is going.
But if it does work in a way

306
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,400
where you know where this is
going, you know what?

307
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,800
You need to follow me, follow
the podcast, follow me on social

308
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,360
media.
Let's be friends, because

309
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,640
listen.
There, I really can't stress

310
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,160
enough, there is a lot of
ancient texts that discuss in

311
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,440
great detail exactly how succubi
and incubi procreate.

312
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,880
Because if you didn't know,
demons cannot create life on

313
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,920
their own because only God can
create life, right?

314
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,840
So obviously, duh, demons can't
create life.

315
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,280
Which means they need to steal
men's semen and use it to

316
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,640
impregnate unsuspecting women in
the night by.

317
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:07,640
Kind of let you guess by first
having sex with a man as a

318
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:13,000
succubus stealing his seed, then
shape shifting into an incubus

319
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:18,640
which is a male demon, and then
having sex with sexually

320
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,240
assaulting a human woman and
impregnating her with the stolen

321
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,560
seed in the form of an incubus.
Again.

322
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,160
Look.
I I didn't think.

323
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,760
I didn't think I'd be here
either.

324
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,400
OK, but we're here.
We're here now.

325
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,200
So when I.
Say that somebody in the small

326
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,440
case is preoccupied with the
concept of being seduced or

327
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,520
sexually assaulted by a
succubus.

328
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,120
Obviously, these people are just
carrying the torch of our

329
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,800
ancestors who are also just a
little too interested in the sex

330
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,840
lives of demons.
Ancestors like the authors of

331
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,680
the Malleus Maleficarum or the
Hammer of Witches, otherwise

332
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,920
known as the Witch Hunter's
Manual written by Heinrich

333
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,640
Kramer and Jacob Springer.
They also wrote about the sex

334
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,320
lives of demons.
Or ancestors like Pope Innocent

335
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,240
the 8th, Everyone's favorite
Pope.

336
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,280
Everyone knows that Pope, right?
Pope Innocent the 8th?

337
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,360
Sure.
Ancestors like Saint Augustine

338
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:24,840
of Hippo, whoever that is.
That St. that St.

339
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,000
A Pope and a St. are also
writing about how demons have

340
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,040
sex.
I'm really you can Fact Check

341
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,760
me.
Please Fact Check me.

342
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,960
Finally, ancestors like King
James.

343
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,000
Yes, that King James.
Yep, he also wrote a lot about

344
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,680
demon sex.
King James of the Bible fame.

345
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,280
King James the Scott who haunted
women for sport.

346
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,360
Oh, did I say women?
I meant witches.

347
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,880
Actually, I did mean women.
The Scott who haunted women for

348
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:02,080
sport during the witch trials.
So yeah, that King James,

349
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,840
seriously.
Seriously.

350
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,640
All of these people wrote.
A lot of stuff.

351
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,320
And King James in particular
wrote a very long three-part

352
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,360
demon fanfic called Demonology
that was used during said witch

353
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,600
hunts.
So interesting.

354
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,720
Also, less fun fact, actually
kind of more fun fact, babies

355
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,720
that were born from incubus
impregnation were called

356
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,680
Cambians.
A sort of demon spawn who I'm

357
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,440
not making this up again I can't
stress this enough.

358
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,760
A sort of demon spawn who are
super hot and very capable and

359
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,440
also very evil.
Which I mean, I feel like that's

360
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,280
just my type.
That's just my type right there.

361
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,480
Super hot, capable, very evil.
What can I say?

362
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,720
What can I say?
So the following.

363
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,480
Historical figures are suggested
to be incubus spawn, and they

364
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,040
are suggested as they are
suggested to be incubus spawn by

365
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:11,000
Ludovico Maria Sinastri in the
1600s.

366
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,480
Nailed it.
So these people are supposed to

367
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,680
be cambions or cambions I don't
speak Latin.

368
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,640
These people are supposed to be
incubus, demon spawn, Romulus

369
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:26,320
and Remus of Rome fame.
Alexander the Great, which we

370
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,320
touched.
On in the Demon in the Woods

371
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,360
episode.
Which seems like a stretch, but

372
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,400
please go back and listen.
Caesar Augustus.

373
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,840
It doesn't list all of the
Caesar's, but Caesar Augustus is

374
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,280
specifically mentioned as being
demon spawn.

375
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,160
And also Merlin.
Uh huh.

376
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,400
Yeah, that Merlin.
So obviously the concept of.

377
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,360
Incubus and incubi and succubi
goes back a really long time.

378
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,960
So incubus the word comes from
the Latin incubare, which means

379
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,160
to lie or weigh upon.
But also the Latin word incubus.

380
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,880
Interesting.
Which can just mean nightmare,

381
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,120
which is likely where the
concept of an incubus and

382
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:18,120
succubus even came from sleep
paralysis and and this is just

383
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,000
yet another term I was just not
expecting to ever say on the

384
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,840
show.
Nocturnal emissions.

385
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,840
You know, here we are, here we
are right?

386
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,000
So did Jack Smerl maybe just
have a series of sleep paralysis

387
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,720
went dreams?
I it's not fun for me to say

388
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,240
it's not, so I don't want to
think about it either, but I'm

389
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,040
thinking about it.
So now you're thinking about it.

390
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,240
Sorry again, blame Ed Warren,
blame Ed, right?

391
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,240
Anyway, so did Jax Merl really
just have a series of sleep

392
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,600
paralysis wet dreams?
On a serious note though,

393
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,240
honestly, honestly, it wouldn't
make the situation any less

394
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,720
terrifying for him if they
weren't actually demons than if

395
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,040
they were just sleep paralysis.
Because if you haven't had sleep

396
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,280
paralysis it is really
terrifying.

397
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,640
And if you're super Catholic and
you believe in demons, then

398
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,240
guess what, you you're not going
to think that oh it's just sleep

399
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,120
paralysis, everybody has sleep
paralysis.

400
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,080
No, nobody knew about this back
then.

401
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,520
Not nobody.
Most people did not know about

402
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,040
sleep paralysis back in 1986.
Normies did not know.

403
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,520
So it would be terrifying to
him.

404
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,720
So again, This is why I keep
saying that I kind of feel like

405
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,080
Jack was having experiences,
it's just that they weren't.

406
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,320
Necessarily real experiences,
but also This is why I keep

407
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,840
saying that it's messed up that
Ed Warren and Robert Curran

408
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,360
thought it was OK to kind of
pornographize his experiences.

409
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,160
Is that a word?
It is now.

410
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,720
So the case that the Warrens
investigated right after the

411
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,720
Smurls like I have mentioned
happens to be the Snedeker

412
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,560
family of the Haunting of
Connecticut fame right?

413
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,560
And like I said, that married
couple also encountered demonic

414
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,800
sexual assault which I still
think is like interesting.

415
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,680
I am curious if it was Ed or
Jack Smurl who mentioned it

416
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,800
first.
Like did did Jack Smurl tell him

417
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,200
about his sleep paralysis dreams
and Ed was like.

418
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,080
Oh, that's a good idea.
Oh, this is a good idea.

419
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,680
This is a great idea.
This is going to sell.

420
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,600
Sex sells.
Let's just put sex in the

421
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,040
situation.
It's going to sell.

422
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,080
You know, is that what he was
thinking?

423
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,080
And then he was like, OK, didn't
quite work out.

424
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,840
It didn't quite work out with
the smorrel.

425
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,880
So I'm going to try it again
with these Snedekers.

426
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,480
They're they're game, you know?
Is that what was happening or

427
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,920
were the families?
Did they just have demon sex on

428
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,920
the brain?
I don't know, we'll never know.

429
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,720
Either way, the Warrens never
brought up demonic sexual

430
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,600
assault ever again after the
SNET occurs.

431
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,640
Probably because it was a
terrible fucking idea.

432
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,640
Like I said, even if humans have
been obsessed with demonic

433
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,280
sexual assault for centuries,
it's not an excuse.

434
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,920
And that is just a perfect
example of fear mongering, which

435
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,080
I've said before, Fear is
actually what Ed and Lorraine

436
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,480
Warren actually peddled.
It wasn't help.

437
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,280
It wasn't, you know, relief for
these poor families.

438
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,680
No, no, no.
They sold fear.

439
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,400
They are fear mongers.
And like I've said, I'm telling

440
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,560
you like.
Seriously, Ed had a real knack

441
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,520
for captivating and keeping
people's attention and stocking

442
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,720
their fears especially.
He was so good at it.

443
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,160
I mean, even down to the words
that he uses and even the

444
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:40,320
confidence in which he says said
words like demon infestation, no

445
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,320
one wants to be infested with
anything.

446
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,800
I mean, it sounds like a
nightmare on its own.

447
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,200
Just hearing the word
infestation gives me like I

448
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800
don't like it gives me the
vapours.

449
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,000
You know, you might say I don't
like it.

450
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,760
I don't want an infestation of
anything, and I certainly don't

451
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,520
want a demon infestation.
Now it's worse.

452
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,520
Now it's worse because a demon
infestation can bring other

453
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,200
infestations, namely of the pest
variety.

454
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,040
You got swarms of flies you know
you have.

455
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,240
OK, What other bugs?
I don't know.

456
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,160
Probably more bugs.
I don't want to talk about it.

457
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,400
I hate it.
It's disgusting.

458
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:14,800
Pig.
You know what?

459
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,960
It would be like a pig
infestation because of how

460
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,800
obsessed they are with pigs and
demons.

461
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,720
Anyway, Infestation is only the
second step of Ed Warren's

462
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,000
made-up demon lore, because the
more research I do, the more

463
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,440
clear it becomes that Ed created
his own alternate universe

464
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,520
fanfic demon mechanics and and
all the stuff that worked best

465
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,560
for him made it into the lore.
And the stuff that didn't or

466
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,920
that he forgot or that wasn't
convenient for him did not make

467
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,640
it into the lore.
So by the time of the Smurl's

468
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,600
Haunting, here are the stages of
demon possession according to Ed

469
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,640
Warren in his own little
universe.

470
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,560
Step one.
Encroachment, Step 2.

471
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,520
Infestation.
Step 3.

472
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,800
Oppression, Step 4.
Possession.

473
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,240
Step 5.
Death.

474
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,400
The worst step?
And by the way, let me just, OK,

475
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,080
quick, quick note, quick.
It's a heavy note, but I'm going

476
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,120
to, you know what?
I'm going to say it.

477
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,640
People die in exorcisms not
because of demons.

478
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,920
They die during exorcisms
entirely due to the so-called

479
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,160
exorcist's neglect and abuse.
Of the allegedly possessed.

480
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Person, they're not possessed
and the exorcist is not

481
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,160
performing an exorcism.
OK, if the devil exists and is

482
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,200
trying to kill people via
possession, he's making the

483
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,960
religious folks do the actual
killing.

484
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,680
My, my, my research shows that
there isn't a well defined or

485
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,160
publicly available list of
possession stages.

486
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,000
And just a reminder, layman,
which includes Ed Warren layman

487
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,120
could not perform exorcisms.
You can't perform an exorcism if

488
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,760
you're a layman.
I'm a layman.

489
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,280
I'm a laywoman.
I can't perform an exorcism and

490
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,760
neither could Ed.
Anyway, here's what I found from

491
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,080
Father Gabriel Lamourth, who is
really not a reliable source

492
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,440
considering that he claimed to
have done 160,000 exorcisms in

493
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,440
his life, which is.
It's just not true.

494
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,720
It's genuinely belong beyond the
pale.

495
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,080
But mind you, Father Amorth also
made it into Hollywood and had

496
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,040
his own books and was a
recurring guest on Coast to

497
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,520
Coast AM with George Nori.
And Father Amorth was also

498
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,120
quoted as saying practicing yoga
is satanic.

499
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,120
It leads to evil, just like
reading Harry Potter.

500
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,760
So maybe take this with a grain
of salt, but this actual priests

501
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:49,120
stages of possession are #1
diabolical infestation #2

502
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,040
diabolical obsession #3
diabolical oppression #4

503
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,440
diabolical possession.
Death is not a stage of

504
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,280
possession in here.
And just to give you an just to

505
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,840
remind you, Ed's started with
encroachment.

506
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,120
That's not in this guy's list.
He's got infestation neck, which

507
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,280
is this guy's number one.
And Ed does not have obsession,

508
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,960
but he does have oppression.
So they're not the same.

509
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,200
You know, I don't think I feel
like this is not a science or an

510
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,520
art, honestly.
Anyway, I think Ed picked up on

511
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,440
the lingo by lurking around
priests long enough.

512
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,960
And kind of latched onto the
words infestation and oppression

513
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,720
because they sound bad.
And I don't know, they just

514
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,760
sound bad.
I think he picked up that those

515
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,680
make people feel a certain way.
But honestly, I don't know why.

516
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,480
Why didn't Ed use the word
diabolical in front of his

517
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,160
stages?
Why didn't he use that in this

518
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,200
instance?
It just means like demon, like

519
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,520
demonic, right?
But like, why didn't he use the

520
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,520
term diabolical?
That's such a good word.

521
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,280
That's such a good word, and it
gives.

522
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,960
Again, a gravitas to these
stages and it sounds really

523
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,320
cool.
It sounds very metal.

524
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,600
It's crazy to me that he didn't
use the words diabolical.

525
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,120
I just have to guess maybe he
just had a hard time spelling

526
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,680
diabolical compared to demonic.
There's just fewer letters in

527
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,560
demonic.
I don't know.

528
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,720
But also, by the way, in my
research regarding the incubus

529
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,640
and incubi and succubi, I
discovered that there is an

530
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,760
official term for incubi
impregnating human women and it

531
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,640
is called diabolical
insemination.

532
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:38,080
And again, I ask you, why didn't
Ed latch onto this?

533
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:39,480
Are you?
Kidding me?

534
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,320
Diabolical insemination.
Ed would have loved to have said

535
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,840
that.
He would have loved to have said

536
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,440
those words.
It's crazy to me that he didn't.

537
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,080
What a missed opportunity.
Oh, God, I'm so disappointed in

538
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,000
you, Ed.
Come on.

539
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,680
He also talks a lot though about
psychic sleeps in this case,

540
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,080
which is a term that I think
started with the Warrens,

541
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,560
specifically Ed.
I think he really made it up.

542
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,840
For his own lore, because in my
research there is such a thing

543
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,040
as psychic sleep, but it's like
a Yogi thing.

544
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,040
It's a yoga thing, which is you
heard from father and N is evil,

545
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,880
just like Harry Potter.
I think he just made-up psychic

546
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,520
sleep.
And in yoga, it just means

547
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,360
you're, like, meditating really
hard.

548
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,080
So you're kind of like,
meditationally asleep.

549
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,000
That's what psychic sleep means
in yoga.

550
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,040
I think he just made the term
up, and it's just an excuse.

551
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,920
It's like psychic sleep.
OK, Reminder, psychic sleep is

552
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,400
just how demons make your
partner or family impossible to

553
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,640
wake up when you're experiencing
something paranormally

554
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,040
terrifying.
You know, like, ostensibly as a

555
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,520
way to drive a wedge between you
and your family because you have

556
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,600
no proof of what happened.
And they didn't witness it

557
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,680
because they were put into a
deep psychic sleep.

558
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,120
OK, which seemed convenient to
me.

559
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,640
Holy water also plays plays a
big part in this real story, as

560
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,160
I've mentioned, at least in the
books.

561
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,520
TBD on the movie because the
family takes 2 just keeping holy

562
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,680
water on hand like literally
24/7.

563
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,800
Like it's really crazy.
I think I mentioned this out of

564
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,520
order, but genuinely, Janet
Smirrel keeps holy water and

565
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,920
aspirin bottles to keep handy is
what she says in the book, which

566
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,840
is such a weird container.
But like, I don't know.

567
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,080
Go off, Queen.
Sure.

568
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,640
Remember in the first episode of
the story that I told where

569
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,880
Janet was recording the knocks
with the demon, where she was

570
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,680
communicating knock once for
yes, knock twice for no, or

571
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,600
whatever it was she was
recording it.

572
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,160
In the book, it specifically
states that she went back and

573
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,000
checked that the tape actually
recorded.

574
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,800
She played it back and she was
so pleased to hear that there

575
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,200
really was evidence on the tape.
She had successfully recorded

576
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,280
her conversation with the demon,
regardless of the fact that if

577
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,000
it's just audio, someone could
just be, she could just be

578
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,960
knocking on the wall.
Regardless of that fact, let's

579
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,360
put that fact out of the that's
not relevant.

580
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,200
The point is, is the book made a
point to say that she captured

581
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,400
evidence.
It does not come back up in the

582
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,640
book.
And Ed Warren claims that he did

583
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,040
have those audio tapes.
In fact, he claimed that he had

584
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,760
more audio tapes of knocking and
rapping.

585
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,120
And he actually included video.
He he got video of like, dark

586
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,080
shadows that belong to the
demon.

587
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,199
These are things that he says he
had.

588
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,520
OK, seriously, They go out of
the way to say we have evidence.

589
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,400
So where's the evidence, Ed?
Where's the evidence?

590
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,520
The Warrens never shy away from
broadcasting evidence that they

591
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,239
have, you know, like the the
admittedly creepy but completely

592
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,560
debunked photo of the the little
demon boy in Amityville or OK,

593
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,679
the audio recordings that Ed
made in Enfield, which you can

594
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,159
still listen to even today on
YouTube.

595
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,600
He they share those.
We have that.

596
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,880
Evidence.
I don't know that that's

597
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,679
evidence.
It's just recordings.

598
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,960
The point is they share stuff
with the public, Ed claimed.

599
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,160
Even to 1 reporter who asked,
hey, can I have the tapes?

600
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,840
Where was the evidence that you
said that?

601
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,520
You literally just told me that
you have.

602
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,400
You told me to my face was out
that there's evidence.

603
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,440
So can we have the evidence?
Ed tells this reporter.

604
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,120
I gave it to someone, I don't
remember who.

605
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:13,760
And they're like, what do you
mean?

606
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,880
He's like, oh, I gave it to
like, I gave it to like another

607
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,840
channel.
I gave it to another news

608
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,800
station.
I don't remember what the outlet

609
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,040
was.
Oh, OK, that's interesting that

610
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,920
you can't remember, but OK.
Then at another date on a on a

611
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,840
later date, he claimed that he
would eventually show the tapes.

612
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,120
He yes, he would eventually
release the tapes, but only to

613
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,520
the Vatican.
Which means you would never be

614
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,800
able to see them.
It also implies that he has a

615
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,440
connection to the Vatican, or
that the Vatican gives a single

616
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,640
flying fuck about him, which
they don't.

617
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,200
Interesting.
But he wants you to think that

618
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,200
he felt very, he really wanted
to be included in like the inner

619
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,560
circle of, you know, the Vatican
and priests and etcetera.

620
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,480
Now, I did say that we weren't
going to address every single

621
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,200
claim, even though it's really
tempting to, but I do have to

622
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,720
share this one quote from volume
11 of the Skeptical Enquirer in

623
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,760
1986 wherein they are
interviewing the Smirrels

624
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,440
neighbors.
About the haunting.

625
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,440
Which by the way, the neighbors
that they interviewed, None,

626
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,040
none, none of them were saying
like the 26 or 28 or whatever

627
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,520
people that Robert Curran said
that he interviewed.

628
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,960
Like none of the people that the
Skeptical Enquirer talked to

629
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,200
said that they really witnessed
anything paranormal.

630
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,720
So anyway, one skeptical
neighbor pointed to a squirrel

631
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:35,920
in the tree in front of the
smirrel's house and said there's

632
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,880
your demon, which as you know,
squirrels and I have an ongoing

633
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,560
feud.
So I totally agree.

634
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,560
That's the demon, the squirrel,
every squirrel.

635
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,200
Little squirrels are demons.
Squirrels are little demons.

636
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,160
That's what I'm trying to say.
A part of the book that actually

637
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,560
made me laugh out loud and I
think I couldn't keep a straight

638
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,840
face.
I tried three times.

639
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,760
I could not keep a straight face
as I was reading it in the

640
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,720
story.
So you probably picked up on

641
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:01,120
that in the first episode.
But a part of the book that made

642
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,120
me literally laugh out loud,
like genuinely belly laugh was

643
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,440
when Ed was goading the demon to
get a reaction out of it.

644
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,880
And and then it started.
The demon starts writing with

645
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,080
like ectoplasm or something on
the mirror.

646
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,040
And in the book, it's like it
starts with spells out why?

647
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,120
Oh, you.
And I'm like, oh, what's it

648
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,200
going to say?
You need to leave, You got to

649
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,200
go, you know, like, I don't
know, I'm trying to think like

650
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,920
what would a demon right in the
mirror?

651
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,040
You maybe your maybe it's going
to say your soul is mine.

652
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,080
You know, this is where my head
is going in the split. 2nd but

653
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,120
but before it says that the full
message is suddenly appears and

654
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,720
says you dirty bastard get out
of here.

655
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,880
Like what are you talking about?
That's not that's not what a

656
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,440
demon would say, right?
Am I crazy?

657
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,280
Like, I know I'm not a demon and
I don't know any demons

658
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,760
personally, but I just really
can't imagine that the demon

659
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,520
would actually say, you dirty
bastard, get out of here.

660
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Like what are you talking about?
It's just so insane.

661
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,600
Oh, man.
OK, moving on.

662
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,520
Nearing the end of August 1986,
Paul Kurtz with the Committee

663
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,640
for the Scientific Investigation
of Claims of the Paranormal,

664
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:20,360
which is shortened to CSI Cop.
CSI Cop.

665
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,160
OK, this Committee for
Scientific Investigation

666
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,320
Cleansing the Paranormal, they
called for a group of scientists

667
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,560
to offer free psychiatric and
psychological help to the

668
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,960
Smurls, which I think is fair
and also very kind of them.

669
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,960
However, the Smurls felt they
needed no help, which I

670
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,080
understand there's a stigma
against.

671
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,760
Psychiatric help and especially
in the 80s, it's still around

672
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,880
today, so you can only imagine
it was a lot stronger back then.

673
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,920
People go, I'm not crazy.
No, no, no, no one's saying that

674
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:51,560
you're.
Crazy.

675
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,000
It just means that maybe there's
something else going on and we

676
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,520
can help you, and then it'll be
done and you won't have to worry

677
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,960
about seeing all these ghosts
and demons anymore.

678
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:03,240
So here we go.
Doctor Robert Gordon, a

679
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:07,920
psychologist from Allentown, in
a August 1986 Times Leader

680
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,920
article said people often look
at demonology to explain many

681
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,920
tensions that they experience as
individuals and within their

682
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,120
families and they should consult
mental health professionals that

683
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,640
are not looking at them as sick
or bad, but will help to

684
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,200
alleviate their sufferings.
So this is what I'm saying.

685
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,160
This is why you will always hear
me saying here on the show or

686
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,160
you'll even see me commenting on
Reddit on on people's true true

687
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,760
paranormal stories.
You will see me commenting on

688
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,440
threads that even if someone is
hallucinating, that doesn't mean

689
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,120
they're crazy.
If someone is exeriencing

690
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,080
exeriencing something that they
think is aranormal, it doesn't

691
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,840
mean you're crazy.
Needing sychiatric help doesn't

692
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,480
mean you're crazy.
Like as a society we just have

693
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,160
this weird knee jerk assumption,
I don't know that there's like

694
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,920
some inherently bad state of
insanity that we might reach

695
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,720
that we can never come back
from, which with modern medicine

696
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,520
and therapies, it's just really
not true.

697
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,480
We have modern medicine, we have
therapy.

698
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,920
Like you'll be fine.
You're not crazy.

699
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,040
You're not forever crazy.
You know, we also have a knee

700
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,600
jerk reaction to being told that
we might benefit from a trip to

701
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,240
the psychologist or psychiatrist
because again, it implies that

702
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:17,680
we're crazy.
So like we get defensive.

703
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,120
So again, I can understand why
the family might have been, you

704
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,480
know, like I.
Don't know about that.

705
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,560
You think we're crazy?
You think we're lying.

706
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,400
OK.
And that's assuming, very

707
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,520
charitably, that no one in the
family was intentionally

708
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,040
misleading anyone else, and they
all fully believed, which we'll

709
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,880
get into in a moment.
I do wish that the Smorrels had

710
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,520
had taken it up and I wish that
they hadn't taken such insult to

711
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,680
the offer and that they had at
the very least gotten Jack into

712
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,800
a psychiatric assessment, you
know, because he had that water

713
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,560
in the brain.
He had the hydrocephalus.

714
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,360
I just, I feel like there was
something else going on, like

715
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,520
with hallucinations and and
delusions.

716
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,840
But even if that was happening,
that still doesn't mean that he

717
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,400
was crazy, quote UN quote.
I I will also always wonder.

718
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,520
If it was the Smurls who turned
away the offer of the

719
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,120
psychiatric evaluation or if it
was Ed Warren and Lorraine

720
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,280
Warren telling them to turn it
down.

721
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,720
But what I can tell you right
now with 100% certainty is that

722
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,120
Ed would never have encouraged
them to do it.

723
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,120
He definitely would have
encouraged them for sure.

724
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,800
And there's not a chance,
because if they're going to the

725
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,080
psychiatrist, if they're going
to psychologist, Ed's losing his

726
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,760
cash cow, which is fucked up.
So he would prefer that they

727
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:38,280
stay on well than to get better.
Gross, right?

728
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,600
So remember The Exorcist, the
movie, which I never talk about

729
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,600
ever.
I've never once talked about The

730
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,120
Exorcist.
Do you remember The Exorcist?

731
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,240
Remember Father Damien Karis?
The Hot 1, not the old one.

732
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,560
Well, he's not really a priest.
And the actor, I should say the

733
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,040
actor that plays Father Damien
Karis, is not a priest.

734
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,080
He's an actor.
So then why would I be bringing

735
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,000
up him?
Why would I be bringing up that

736
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,920
guy?
Because oh, what's this is

737
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,000
weird.
Hold on a second.

738
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,120
It looks like he visited the
Smirrel House.

739
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,600
It was in the papers.
It was on the news.

740
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,280
It was on the news that an actor
who plays a priest visited the

741
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,200
Smirrel House.
For why?

742
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,520
For why?
According to a sceptical

743
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,480
Enquirer article in 1986,
indeed, according to news

744
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,480
accounts and several papers,
Smerl has also met with Jason

745
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,520
Miller, who played the part of
the priest and the Exorcist.

746
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,080
Miller, now living in Scranton,
visited the Smerl house with his

747
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,640
publicist, William Mcandrew
shortly after the story broke.

748
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:51,520
Huh, that's I wonder why?
That's seems weird, doesn't it?

749
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,200
Janet Smirrell said Miller met
with the family for about an

750
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,680
hour.
She said he seemed very

751
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,040
interested and knowledgeable.
He made some suggestions about

752
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,520
things we could try to do.
She did not elaborate.

753
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,840
What are you talking about?
He is not a priest.

754
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,920
He plays one on TVI mean movies.
Like what are you talking about?

755
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:18,720
Why is he suggesting anything?
But actually apparently even

756
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,960
though he was an actor, people
would chase him down in the

757
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,680
streets and think that he was
actually a real priest even

758
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,080
though he just played one in the
movies.

759
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,120
Which is really weird.
But honestly, this is just

760
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,080
another example of a stenchion
like I mentioned earlier where

761
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:36,160
you're trying to give credence
to the Smerls story by having

762
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,360
someone that you associate with
priests visit the.

763
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,960
House.
What?

764
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,680
Still, guys, he's just an actor.
He's not really a priest.

765
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:48,560
This is crazy anyway, so then
why was he really there?

766
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,960
Why was the priest actor really
there?

767
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,760
Oh, well, Huh.
It seemed that Miller.

768
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:02,040
Was actually interested in
directing the movie based on the

769
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,720
Smerls story.
He was going to direct that

770
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:06,960
film.
That's why his publicist was

771
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,520
there with him.
Because otherwise why are you

772
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,000
going anywhere with your
publicist?

773
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,160
A Wilkes Barre paper at the
time, which like I said this was

774
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:19,200
literally in the news.
A Wilkes Barre paper at the time

775
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:22,760
reported that this wasn't just
any paranormal movie.

776
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,440
This wasn't just any scary story
movie.

777
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,800
This movie would have A twist
for it would feature the mini

778
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,160
rapes of Jack Smurl by a demon
that is a.

779
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,360
Quote.
From a paper that is a quote

780
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,280
from a paper.
I just do you see?

781
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,680
Do you see why I feel like we
got to talk about this?

782
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,800
Because it was everywhere.
Everyone was talking.

783
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,240
About it all the time.
It's crazy.

784
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,800
Anyway, the movie ended up being
directed by someone else that

785
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,200
made for TV movie.
It was directed by someone else.

786
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,400
I don't know who, but it wasn't
Father Karis.

787
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,680
And finally, we move on to the
theories, at least as I see

788
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,680
them.
From what I can tell, it looks

789
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,520
like there's kind of four basic
theories here with, I mean you

790
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,360
could say there's some sub
bullets behind each one, but I'm

791
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,200
just going to, I am not going to
get into the nitty gritty of

792
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,000
each one.
I'm just going to list the four

793
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,040
of them and then I will get into
the nitty gritty.

794
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:20,760
I am saying this as much for
your information as to keep me

795
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,360
accountable to not go off the
deep end as I'm talking about

796
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,240
these.
We're just going to go through

797
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:27,880
the four of them.
Here are my 4 theories.

798
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,880
Number one theory #1 The Smurls
were telling the truth, the

799
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:39,320
whole truth, and nothing but the
truth number. 2 theory. 2 the.

800
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,040
Children in the home were
playing poltergeist, like in the

801
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,720
Enfield Poltergeist case and
countless other poltergeist

802
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,720
cases, and the children happened
to whip up the rest of the

803
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:55,040
family into a frenzy, just like
in all those other poltergeist

804
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,720
cases.
That's three number two.

805
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,200
Theory #3 Jack's water on the
brain disease, which I think is

806
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,320
hydrocephalus.
Caused hallucinations and

807
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:11,320
delusions and then also caused a
shared psychosis state, which

808
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,720
we'll get to in a SEC.
But I do think it's important to

809
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:17,640
take Jack Smurl's medical
history into consideration when

810
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,120
we're discussing the case and,
and the veracity of the claims

811
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,120
in the case.
You can't, you can't ignore that

812
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,680
fact.
So #4 theory #4 the Smurls and

813
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,920
the Warrens concocted the entire
story from scratch, made from

814
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,000
scratch for fame and fortune.
OK, now we're going to get into

815
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,120
kind of some thoughts on the
theories.

816
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,600
Theory #1 truly paranormal
question mark.

817
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,960
The problem with theory #1 being
that everything is true is that

818
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,360
the Warrens are involved, which
means that everything that the

819
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,760
Smorls claim is brought into
question.

820
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,040
I'm sorry.
That's just what if you

821
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,400
associate with a scammer?
Now I have to look at you with a

822
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,600
a much more skeptical lens
because the the Warrens are

823
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,520
involved.
So sorry, it's not.

824
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,400
I'm not saying that the Smorls
are necessarily bad people.

825
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,800
I think in some way they were
definitely being taken advantage

826
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,680
of by the Warrens regardless of
their motivations.

827
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,960
But you just can't.
Anyone that worked with Ed and

828
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,240
Lorraine Warren, you have to
just you have to question them.

829
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,440
Well, do you guys hear that?
There's like a rattling in my

830
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:32,200
wall.
Oh no, it's it's the demon.

831
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,680
So if you hear rattling, just
no, it's a demon and we'll just

832
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,960
keep moving because you're not
supposed to interact with it,

833
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,840
right?
Hey, you know what?

834
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:47,960
If it is a demon, knock once for
no and twice for yes.

835
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,680
I didn't say what knock 0 times
was, but that's how many times

836
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:55,720
it knocked.
All right, moving on.

837
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,560
OK, so they're basically saying,
well, the swirls were suffering,

838
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,640
so why shouldn't they get
something out of it by, you

839
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,560
know, getting a book deal or a
movie deal like it It's they're

840
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,280
owed that, you know?
I don't know.

841
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,120
I don't know.
I don't know how I feel about

842
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,160
that argument.
It just doesn't quite ring true

843
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,200
for me.
But assuming that there really

844
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,240
was paranormal activity in the
small home, and assuming that Ed

845
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:27,000
and Lorraine witnessed some of
it, then, yeah, Ed and Lorraine

846
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,880
would be milking that small cash
cow until it dried up.

847
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,760
And then they would continue
making money on it by talking

848
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,920
about it and their little
lectures that they charged

849
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,960
people to attend.
Oh, wait.

850
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,360
They would do that regardless of
whether they witnessed any

851
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,400
actual paranormal activity.
The paranormal activity, it's

852
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,640
just kind of it's, it's, it's
unnecessary, it's optional.

853
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,760
They don't even need it.
It's it's not needed for them to

854
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,160
make money.
OK theory #2 it's the kids

855
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,240
fault.
It's the kids who are wrong.

856
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,400
Like we discussed in the Enfield
Poltergeist episode, weird

857
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,960
little girls who I have the
utmost respect for have been

858
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,000
tricking grown men into
believing in poltergeists and

859
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,320
fairies for a very long, long
time.

860
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,960
And the Smirrel case, remember,
happened in the middle of the

861
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,600
Satanic Panic, which is a time
when Americans especially were

862
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,400
expecting to find evil lurking
around every single corner, even

863
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,760
in their own homes.
And as in most cases of

864
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,960
poltergeistic hoaxes, that's a
word.

865
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,120
Now the kids wouldn't even
really need to work that hard to

866
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,960
trick the adults, thanks to the
power of suggestion.

867
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,920
Highly recommend that you go
back and listen to my Infield

868
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,840
Poltergeist episode because I do
share some historical examples

869
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,200
of weird little girls, weird
little kids fooling a lot of

870
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:54,360
adults, and some seemingly very
smart people such as Sir Arthur

871
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,520
Conan Doyle, author of Sherlock.
Holmes so he writes a genius,

872
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,160
but I don't think Sherlock would
fall for the tricks that.

873
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:09,280
His author 100% fell for all
right, So theory #3 Jack's

874
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:15,880
disease and Folli A Familia,
which is French for family

875
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,960
Madness, which you may may seem
familiar to you because it's

876
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:25,880
just one word off from Folli do.
I didn't practice how to say

877
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,560
that.
I did practice how to say Folli

878
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,960
A familia.
So, you know, you're welcome.

879
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:31,920
I don't know how to say you're
welcome in French.

880
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,240
But you know what?
If you don't speak French, but

881
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:37,000
you think that I nailed it,
e-mail me

882
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,320
madamstrangevoice@gmo.com.
If you do speak French and I

883
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,640
didn't nail it, you know what?
I don't need to hear it.

884
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:43,960
I don't need to hear.
About it so.

885
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,720
Let's just moving on theory #3
Jack's disease and family

886
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:52,280
madness.
So Jax Merle told a newspaper

887
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,040
reporter that he had surgery to
remove water from his brain in

888
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,160
1983 because he had been
experiencing short term memory

889
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,400
loss due to a case of meningitis
in his youth.

890
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,880
Now I'm no MD, but my research
makes me wonder if it was

891
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,360
something called normal pressure
hydrocephalus, which is actually

892
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,000
an abnormal buildup of
cerebrospinal fluid in the brain

893
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:21,560
and interestingly can occur as a
complication of meningitis,

894
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,560
which he specifically said that
he had as a child.

895
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,840
Interestingly, hydrocephalus can
also cause hallucinations and

896
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,160
delusions and it accounts for 5
to 6% of dementia cases.

897
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:41,520
So maybe Jack is the one who
started this all.

898
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,120
Maybe he was confusing fiction
for reality.

899
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,680
Maybe he was experiencing
hallucinations that weren't

900
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,040
there.
But then you may be asking, why

901
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,120
would his wife and kids go along
with it if it was just him

902
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,680
hallucinating?
Well, and that's where follie

903
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,960
ephemie comes in, otherwise
known as shared psychosis or

904
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:06,160
family madness.
So a scientific paper on this

905
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:12,560
phenomenon states.
We describe here a case of

906
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,320
follie ephemie involving a Why
does it sound Italian when I say

907
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,160
it?
We're just going to say family.

908
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:23,480
Madness from now on, I feel, I
feel silly continuing to say it.

909
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,240
We describe your case of family
madness involving a nuclear

910
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,320
family consisting of the
husband, the wife, and their

911
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,640
three children, which is really
close to 4.

912
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,240
Just FYI for this example, the
primary patient was suffering

913
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:40,640
from paranoid schizophrenia with
prominent delusions of

914
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:45,000
persecution that were imposed
upon and later shared by his

915
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
family.
Temporary separation decreased

916
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,840
the intensity of shared
delusions and the other family

917
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,680
members.
But also I've heard arguments

918
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:00,560
that if Janet and Jack had made
this up from the jump that the

919
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:04,200
kids wouldn't necessarily have
gone along with this ghost thing

920
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,760
if it wasn't really happening.
But I find that hard to believe.

921
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,120
Even if Jack started out seeing
things and then it kind of

922
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,360
spread to Janet and the kids
weren't necessarily involved

923
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,680
yet.
I mean, here's here's why I find

924
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,360
this hard to believe.
The family was devoutly

925
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:22,720
Catholic.
Like the book.

926
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,440
Beats us over the head about
they were devoutly Catholic.

927
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,800
And what do Catholics love more
than spirits and ghosts?

928
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,880
Nothing.
You got the Holy Ghost, You got

929
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,040
the Holy Spirit.
They love them.

930
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,720
They cannot get enough ghosts
and spirits.

931
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,640
So of I think it's completely
understandable that the kids

932
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,600
could have easily gotten wrapped
up in this, even if they didn't

933
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,880
understand that it was
hallucinations or delusions.

934
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,440
Plus if it was family madness or
shared psychosis, it's not as if

935
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:52,920
the kids or wife even had a
choice.

936
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,000
That's the thing that's that's
the whole thing is they don't

937
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,200
have a choice.
You're not choosing to have

938
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,920
psychosis.
So I really think that it's

939
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,280
possible that Jack could have
been patient, patient.

940
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,640
Patient zero.
I think that Jack could have

941
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,880
been patient 0 when it came to
this case.

942
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,200
And I think he kind of like
infected to kind of like take a

943
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:20,400
cue from Ed Warren.
I'm going to say he infected his

944
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:24,080
family and even parents.
You might even say that he in

945
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,480
in, he made an infestation.
His psychosis became an

946
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,320
infestation.
But not a diabolical 1.

947
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:37,600
And once, once Ed and Lorraine
got involved, I mean, you know,

948
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,000
Ed just had dollar signs in his
eyes the entire time he's

949
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,080
talking to his family.
So even if he thought that maybe

950
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,400
they did need help because
there's not a chance, I cannot

951
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,920
imagine a world in which Ed
Warren 100% fully believed in

952
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,600
everything that he was doing.
I think he knew exactly what he

953
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,000
was doing.
Maybe when he was older, maybe

954
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,000
he kind of forgot, but I think
especially when he was a little

955
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,440
bit younger, he definitely knew
exactly what he was doing.

956
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,920
And so he just had dollar signs
the entire time.

957
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,920
In his eyes, he was like, this
is going to be so lucrative for

958
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,760
me.
In which case, it could have

959
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,320
been the Warrens that were
taking advantage of this family

960
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,480
who was just in need of
psychiatric help because

961
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,480
remember, Ed Warren was quoted
as saying that everybody who

962
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,120
calls them for help is crazy.
Uh huh.

963
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,160
Yeah.
Listen to this Ray Garton, who

964
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,440
was the writer of their first
book.

965
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,400
Nope.
He was the writer of the book

966
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,240
about the Snedeker family
haunting, which will be my next

967
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,280
Warren deep dive, by the way.
Stay tuned.

968
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,440
So the guy that wrote the book
about the Snedekers for Ed and

969
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,400
Lorraine had this to say about
Ed Warren in an interview with

970
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,400
Damned Connecticut.
He said, when I found that the

971
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,560
Snedekers couldn't keep their
individual stories straight, I

972
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,080
went to Ed Warren and explained
the problem.

973
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:55,240
They're crazy.
He said.

974
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,760
All the people who come to us
are crazy, and that's why they

975
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,360
come to us.
Just use what you can and make

976
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,800
the rest up.
You write scary books, right?

977
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,920
Well, make it up and make it
scary.

978
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:11,000
That's why we hired you.
Interesting, so interesting,

979
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,960
right?
So theory #4 the Smurls were

980
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,440
just after fame and fortune, and
obviously so were the Warrens

981
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,960
because duh.
So the Smurls not only had a

982
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,920
book written about their story
in which Ed and Lorraine also

983
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,880
got a cut of the profits from,
but there was also a made for TV

984
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,960
movie based on the Smurls story
in 1991 called The Haunted,

985
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,920
which was named after the book
that was published in 1988.

986
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,520
And the made for TV movie was
released by 20th Century Fox, in

987
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,320
which the Warrens were the main
characters.

988
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:43,160
Which that was Ed's dream.
I mean, well, a feature film

989
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:45,560
would have been his dream, but a
made for TV movie?

990
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,840
It was close enough for Ed.
Although this wasn't even the

991
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,880
first made for TV movie about
the Warrens.

992
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,600
That honor goes to the Demon
Murder case in 1983 starring

993
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,960
Kevin Bacon and Cloris Leachman,
which was based on another case

994
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,200
file of the Warrens.
The Devil Made Me Do It, which

995
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,520
is the story of David Glaxo as
dramatized in The Conjuring film

996
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,440
of the same name.
Do you like, do you think like

997
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:10,640
I'm just saying, do we really
think that people that are

998
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,640
genuinely out to help people are
also making book and movie

999
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,080
deals?
I just, I don't know.

1000
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,600
I don't know.
Anyway, Ed Warren made a point

1001
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,920
to say that the Smurls didn't
want any dramatization of their

1002
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,760
made for TV movie.
His exact quote was no Hollywood

1003
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,280
hype.
I think that's Ed.

1004
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,360
Telling on himself, because he
definitely did want Hollywood

1005
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,320
hype and something about Ed that
I've been picking up as I'm

1006
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,440
doing all this research is just
whatever he says, it's the

1007
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,720
opposite.
Whatever he says, it's the

1008
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,880
opposite if he says.
Oh, we don't want any Hollywood

1009
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,960
hype, He means.
We do want Hollywood hype if he

1010
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,200
says there's a demon.
In your house, there's not a

1011
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:52,920
demon in your house.
It's pretty simple.

1012
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,720
Just literally take whatever he
says and flip it around.

1013
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,200
That's what's the truth is going
to be.

1014
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,120
Anyway, the theory that the
Smurls were purely motivated by

1015
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,480
greed is probably the simplest
explanation.

1016
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,200
Occam's razor and all that, but
I don't know if that's the whole

1017
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,400
story.
I don't know.

1018
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,440
And I would love to hear y'all's
thoughts to make sure to e-mail

1019
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,560
me madamstrangewas@gmail.com.
But some of the imagery in the

1020
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,400
book is just so specific and
frankly strange.

1021
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,840
Kind of dreamlike almost, one
might say.

1022
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:27,200
Hallucinatory or delusional?
Just as just off the top of my

1023
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:28,680
head, those.
Are the words that I would use

1024
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,360
to explain the things that Jack
saw.

1025
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,240
But anyway, back to fame and
fortune, though, because that's

1026
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,440
the theory that we're on.
It's the simplest explanation,

1027
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,840
right?
But so you can tell it's not my

1028
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,080
favorite.
However, I do not dismiss this

1029
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,520
theory for the reasons that I've
heard a lot of people dismiss

1030
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,480
this theory for.
Most people that I hear dismiss

1031
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,440
this theory argue that greed
isn't a solid motivation simply

1032
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,080
because it's a lot of trouble.
To go through.

1033
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,680
For what they assume wasn't a
large amount of money in the

1034
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,040
scheme of things, in the scheme
of schemes, it wasn't a lot of

1035
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,760
money.
So most people that I hear make

1036
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,800
this argument, they say that,
you know, the Jews just wasn't

1037
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,760
worth the squeeze in this case.
So why would they go through all

1038
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,560
that trouble dealing with the
media circus, making themselves

1039
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:22,320
into the haunted succubus demon
family for not a lot of money in

1040
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,680
the long run?
That's what they say.

1041
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:25,960
They go, it's not really worth
it.

1042
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,480
I don't think they did it
because I didn't think it was

1043
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,520
worth it.
But I think what they're

1044
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,200
missing.
Is that?

1045
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,680
Here's what I think.
I think they are vastly

1046
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,880
overestimating the amount of
logic and discernment that

1047
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:44,560
people who run hoaxes and get
rich quick schemes actually

1048
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,760
have.
Because the thing about get rich

1049
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,000
quick schemes, which is what
this would be, you know,

1050
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,840
claiming that your house is
haunted, getting a book and a

1051
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,600
movie deal and getting in
advance of cash.

1052
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,920
The thing about get rich quick
schemes is that.

1053
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:03,520
People falling for them.
In this case, the Smurls don't

1054
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,600
know that it's not going to work
or they wouldn't even try it.

1055
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,840
They they didn't.
They don't get that the scheme

1056
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,360
part and get rich quick.
Scheme means that they will in

1057
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,160
fact not.
Get rich quick.

1058
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,320
OK, they don't.
Understand that that's the

1059
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,320
that's the thing about get rich
quick schemes.

1060
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,400
Because listen, you, dear
listener, you probably know that

1061
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,800
nobody gets rich quick from a
get rich quick scheme.

1062
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,320
You may think then, perhaps
understandably, that most other

1063
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,480
people also think just like you
do, and they know that.

1064
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,320
Get rich quick Schemes are
schemes, and you do not get rich

1065
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,480
quick.
But humans love instant

1066
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,520
gratification.
They love instant gratification.

1067
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:47,040
We love instant gratification,
and we especially love the

1068
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,880
fantasy of our whole.
Life changing for the better and

1069
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,920
the blink of an eye.
Just you take a pill, you get a

1070
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:58,040
shot, you go out on a limb and
your life is completely changed

1071
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,080
for the better.
We love shortcuts.

1072
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,080
People fall.
Forget rich quick schemes.

1073
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,880
Constantly, all the time, daily,
hourly.

1074
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:10,600
Look at Las Vegas.
What else is gambling other than

1075
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,120
a get rich quick scheme?
Well, it's also.

1076
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,800
AI guess it's also a get poor
quick scheme but no one likes.

1077
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,880
To talk about that part, they
only talk about the getting rich

1078
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,200
quick, right?
Or hey, Lotto tickets, that's a

1079
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,040
get rich quick scheme, one in
which you are actually three

1080
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:31,360
times more likely to die driving
on the way to the store to get

1081
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,440
the Lotto ticket then you are to
actually win the Lotto.

1082
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,680
I'd say those odds aren't good.
I would say the juice.

1083
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,800
Isn't worth the.
Squeeze there, Wouldn't you

1084
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,760
often get rich quick schemes
even take more effort and more

1085
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,840
energy and time than just
putting in the actual work?

1086
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,960
In which you would have ended up
with more money in the long run

1087
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,240
because look, there's MLM's,
multi level marketing or pyramid

1088
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:02,400
schemes like Lula, Roe,
Herbalife, Amway, just to name a

1089
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,480
few.
Where people have shelled out

1090
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,720
their life savings and worked
themselves to the bone and gone

1091
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,160
into deep debt, all because they
were sold this fantasy of living

1092
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:14,880
in luxury and making it to the
top.

1093
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:20,200
In 2017, by the way, the FTC
estimated that approximately

1094
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,680
800,000 people were victims of
pyramid schemes.

1095
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,440
And that's just the number
that's being reported.

1096
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:32,240
And that was in 2017.
That's just that number is 24.6%

1097
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,760
of the population in the US who
thought that they could get rich

1098
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,480
quick. 24.6.
We're going to round that up

1099
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,760
1/4.
Of the population of the United

1100
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,840
States thought they could.
Get rich quick and fell for a

1101
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:50,320
pyramid scheme or an MLM and
they ended up worse than when

1102
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,280
they started.
I'd say that juice wasn't worth

1103
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,600
it, wouldn't you?
But they still.

1104
01:02:55,600 --> 01:03:00,000
Did it some of them for a long
time, but my absolute favorite

1105
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,640
example of someone doing way
more work in the attempt of

1106
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:07,040
getting out of doing work.
Yes, listen, this is relevant.

1107
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,960
I promise you this is not an
unrelated rabbit hole, but we

1108
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,040
are going down a rabbit hole, so
buckle up.

1109
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,720
My favorite example of someone
doing way more work in the

1110
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:22,000
attempt of trying to get out of
doing work is Joseph Smith, the

1111
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,960
founder of the Church of Latter
Day Saints.

1112
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:30,600
Now, as I always say, always, I
am not a historian, I'm no Dan

1113
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:32,960
Carlin.
I'm no Tony Soprano.

1114
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,440
But I do.
A concerning amount of research

1115
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,520
into rabbit holes, as you know,
and I love reading about con

1116
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,440
artists and flim flammers.
And when I say Joseph Smith is

1117
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:49,680
definitely one of those, I am
really not even putting enough

1118
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,280
emphasis.
I'm not putting enough emphasis.

1119
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:57,840
On just how much of A con artist
Joseph Smith was so Joseph Smith

1120
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,280
of Mormon fame started off
running an illegal but oddly not

1121
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,800
uncommon scam called treasure
seeking.

1122
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,360
Meaning that he would claim that
he alone was able to speak to

1123
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:13,000
these spirits who you can't talk
to, but they also happened to

1124
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,560
secretly know the location of
buried treasure and he.

1125
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,880
He could talk.
To those spirits who knew where

1126
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:22,240
the buried treasure was and and
the spirits would tell him where

1127
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:25,120
the buried treasure treasure
was, but he would only tell you

1128
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,200
where the spirit spirits told
him the treasure was if you paid

1129
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,280
him money.
And then when you did pay him

1130
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,280
money and he told you where to
go dig, there wouldn't be any

1131
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,960
treasure.
Because that there.

1132
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,720
Wasn't any treasure.
That's the scam.

1133
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,000
That's the scam and people fell
for it a lot.

1134
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:46,040
And that's probably why he was
convicted of running said scam

1135
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,680
and had to flee the county he
lived in.

1136
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:53,720
But then you Fast forward a
little more after he's been

1137
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,440
trying to run scams and he's
trying to make ends meet and he

1138
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,720
just doesn't want to do manual
labor and he doesn't want to do

1139
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:03,400
normal work for a living, which
I feel ya, Joe, I'm right there

1140
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:04,320
with you.
I get it.

1141
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,880
But one day, Joseph Smith
claimed that he had spoken to a

1142
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:13,240
very, very special spirit named
Moroni who definitely knew where

1143
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,400
spirit treasure actually was.
He definitely knew there was

1144
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,400
treasure there this time, for
sure.

1145
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,600
There was definitely treasure
there this time.

1146
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,520
And he told him correctly, the
location of that very, very

1147
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:26,440
special treasure that was
definitely there.

1148
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:31,200
And when Joseph Smith went and
dug up the place where Moroni

1149
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,760
told him to dig, it turned out
that there were these gold

1150
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:40,640
plates in the ground, but he
couldn't show anyone because

1151
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,200
you're not allowed to see them.
You can't see them.

1152
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,920
No, no, he can't show you.
He can't show you, No, no, he's

1153
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,640
the only one that could see the
gold plates because if you look

1154
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:55,480
at them you will go crazy.
And also he can't show them to

1155
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,120
you because he actually gave
them back to Moroni, who

1156
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:02,240
actually isn't just a spirit,
he's an Angel actually.

1157
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,800
And Moroni actually told him to
never show the place to anyone,

1158
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,480
even though this might make them
question if the plates are real

1159
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,000
or not.
This is sort of what God is

1160
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:16,280
going for.
Does that?

1161
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,880
Does that remind you of anyone?
Does that remind you of anyone?

1162
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:21,840
Do you see how I.
Told you this isn't totally

1163
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,400
unrelated.
Does it remind you of anyone

1164
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:29,120
finding excuses for why people
can't see the evidence that he

1165
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,200
claims to have?
And then he claims he's given

1166
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,320
that evidence away to some
powerful person who will never

1167
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,760
share it with anyone.
If you zoned out earlier, I'm

1168
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,360
talking about Ed Warren with
this Smurl case that we're

1169
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,160
talking about right now because
Ed Warren specifically said he

1170
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,160
had evidence on the case, but he
just didn't remember where he

1171
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:50,760
gave it.
He's just a baby.

1172
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,760
He doesn't remember.
Oh, he doesn't know.

1173
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,320
Where did the where did the
evidence go?

1174
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,040
He doesn't know it's gone.
Someone else has it.

1175
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,280
He comes up with a bunch of
excuses as to why he can't show

1176
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,880
anyone the evidence because
there is no evidence.

1177
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:08,720
It's almost like scammers are
all using this spoken playbook.

1178
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:13,680
Honestly, it's wild.
And you know, apologies,

1179
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:18,880
apologies, apologies to any of
my Mormon listeners, but I doubt

1180
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:22,080
that I have any of those.
But if you are Mormon, I would

1181
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:23,320
love to hear your thoughts.
E-mail me

1182
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:28,400
madamstrangeways@gmail.com All
to say, the effort that old Joe

1183
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,880
Smith went to in order to
continue his scheme in order to

1184
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:36,040
avoid having to do actual work
for a living is truly, honestly

1185
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,640
mind boggling.
The the I haven't even gone

1186
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:40,200
into.
I'm not even getting into all

1187
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:41,520
the things that he had to do
there.

1188
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,440
He didn't just stop there.
He went through a lot of effort,

1189
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:45,760
made-up a.
Bunch of stuff.

1190
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:50,240
And honestly, since he died at
the hands of an angry mob

1191
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,760
because of Mormonism, because of
the gold plates that he

1192
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,320
supposedly found.
I would say that this probably

1193
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:02,280
wasn't worth the squeeze.
This juice was not worth the

1194
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,680
squeeze.
Wouldn't you say that in

1195
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:07,960
hindsight?
So I don't think that we can.

1196
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,840
Discount the theory that the
Smurls were just greedy purely

1197
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:15,840
because we don't feel that the
ROI on their scam was good

1198
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,479
enough.
I mean especially consider that

1199
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,359
by that point the warrants had
already been portrayed in one

1200
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:24,399
made for TV movie that the
Smurls almost definitely had

1201
01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:28,720
watched because there was
limited television channels and

1202
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,240
limited options for
entertainment in 1986.

1203
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,920
So just remember that made for
TV movies were a big deal.

1204
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,279
It was on normal prime time
television, not cable.

1205
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,680
So you know, like just keep this
in mind that the Warrens had a

1206
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:47,240
had a history of getting books
published and being on made for

1207
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,720
TV and they were probably on the
news and they saw an

1208
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:52,520
opportunity.
I think it's completely

1209
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:57,240
possible, and I genuinely don't
know that that is the entire

1210
01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:01,200
explanation for this case.
But I also don't like when

1211
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,160
people discount it just because
it seemed they personally think

1212
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,920
that it would be too much work
for not enough payout.

1213
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,120
Like yeah but you wouldn't run
this scam like you wouldn't do

1214
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,000
this in the 1st place.
So let's not put ourselves in

1215
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,040
those shoes.
So we will just literally never

1216
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,279
know exactly what happened.
But those are my main 4

1217
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:22,120
theories.
I would love to hear if you have

1218
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,240
other theories.
Like I said, you can do a little

1219
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,040
column A, a little column BI
would love to hear it.

1220
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,319
I really want to hear your
thoughts, so leave a comment on

1221
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:33,040
Spotify or e-mail me about
strangers@gmail.com.

1222
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,760
But I will leave you with this
final little nugget of

1223
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:39,760
strangeness that I was delighted
to unearth.

1224
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:43,960
Somewhat like.
You might say some golden

1225
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:47,279
plates, although I do have
evidence that I unearthed this.

1226
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,160
And Lorraine's grandson, Chris
Mckinnell, is mentioned in the

1227
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,279
haunted book as having taken
part in the investigation.

1228
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,920
So when I saw him doing a TikTok
live the other day, you know, I

1229
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,360
had to join and there weren't
that many people.

1230
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,720
So I was like, well, I got to
shoot my shot.

1231
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,280
So I asked him a question about
the Smurls.

1232
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:10,560
I asked what was his most
memorable experience with the

1233
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,080
Smurls.
I think that's a fair question

1234
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:16,160
because he wasn't a huge part of
the book, but he was in the book

1235
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:17,600
a little bit.
And I didn't mention that in the

1236
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,480
story because there's already so
many moving parts.

1237
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,520
OK, but he was he was following
in his.

1238
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:26,720
Grandparents footsteps, which
you'll see.

1239
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,320
I was really not prepared for
the answer that I got.

1240
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,960
You know, he, he said.
You know, Oh, he repeated my

1241
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,240
question.
Oh, you know, what was my most

1242
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,000
memorable experience with the
Smurls?

1243
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:42,400
Well, Janet Smerl told me that
she had gone to the doctor and

1244
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,280
that they had discovered that
she had a partially digested

1245
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:50,960
remnant of a twin inside her
body.

1246
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,240
What do you mean?
What are you talking about?

1247
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:56,880
I was expecting him to say
something.

1248
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,880
About the house, or like the
demon or a succubus or an

1249
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,200
incubus.
I was expecting something in the

1250
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,440
house.
Instead he tells me that Janet

1251
01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:11,200
Smirrell ate her twin in the
womb.

1252
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,720
And honestly, I feel like there
could be some truth to it

1253
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:19,080
because they did have twins.
Like the the Smirrels do have a

1254
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,600
do have twin daughters.
I feel like it's completely

1255
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,880
honestly, this is the least
strange thing in this story, but

1256
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:31,360
also it I my jaw dropped.
I was like I furiously was

1257
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:33,760
screened recording right before
he said this.

1258
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:35,600
I didn't think he was going to
answer me so fast.

1259
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,120
He answered me like within
seconds of me asking the

1260
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,480
question.
So I immediately started screen

1261
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:43,560
recording and I'm so glad that I
did because I have evidence that

1262
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,400
he said this.
This is insane.

1263
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,280
I've never heard this before.
Genuinely, that was the first

1264
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,480
thing that he said.
Then he kind of went on to say,

1265
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,880
oh, and I was.
You know, levitated off the

1266
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,520
floor, but luckily people
grabbed me by my feet and my

1267
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,280
hands and pulled me back to the
ground.

1268
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,720
Sir, you shouldn't have.
You should have led with that

1269
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,120
one.
Because I don't care about that

1270
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:04,680
now.
Because you have just told me

1271
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,920
that Janet Smrol ate her twin in
the womb and there's remnants of

1272
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:13,400
said twin in her body.
Come on.

1273
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,280
And let me tell you, that is not
in the book.

1274
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:17,760
I even went back through the
book.

1275
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,560
I was like, did I completely
miss this part in the book?

1276
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,760
Is he telling me something new?
Yeah, it's it's new.

1277
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:25,720
It's not in the book.
It might not be totally new to

1278
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,760
everybody.
Have you heard this before?

1279
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,600
Have you heard that Janet
Smirrel ate her twin in the

1280
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:34,280
womb?
I know that's not the actual.

1281
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,400
I know that's not the actual
science, but it's just funny to

1282
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,720
say.
Have you heard this?

1283
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:42,640
Is this news?
Have you heard it before?

1284
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,840
Let me know Madam
strangeways@gmail.com Anything.

1285
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,320
That's the final, final little
nugget that I'll leave you with.

1286
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,200
But what do you think about the
smol case?

1287
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:54,320
Were the Smols being totally
genuine?

1288
01:12:54,480 --> 01:12:55,880
Were they being a little bit
genuine?

1289
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,960
Were they being not genuine at
all?

1290
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,640
Perhaps.
Would the Warrens have even

1291
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,000
cared one way or the other
whether or not they were being

1292
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,560
genuine?
I think that's really, honestly,

1293
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,080
that's the bigger question.
Do they care?

1294
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:12,040
Did Jack Smirrell's medical
condition play into the story at

1295
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,840
all?
Or were any or all of the four

1296
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,720
daughters in the home?
Just playing Poltergeist because

1297
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:23,680
they're weird little girls or.
Since this all happened so close

1298
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:29,600
to Scranton, PA, was the real
cause behind the Smirrell

1299
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,720
haunting?
Perhaps the Scranton Strangler?

1300
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:39,760
All along, Yep, I waited.
I waited 2 full episodes to

1301
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,480
really make an office joke, so
you're welcome.

1302
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,080
Let me know your thoughts on the
story madamstrangeways@gmail.com

1303
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:47,800
or you can leave me a message on
Spotify.

1304
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,080
I would also love to hear from
you on social media.

1305
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:54,560
You can follow me on Instagram
and on Tiktok and I look forward

1306
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:57,120
to seeing you soon.
So thank you so much for joining

1307
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:01,080
me for yet another episode of
Madam Strangeways.

1308
01:14:13,100 --> 01:14:16,700
Thank you for joining me for
more true strange stories of the

1309
01:14:16,700 --> 01:14:19,980
unexplained.
Remember that you can feel

1310
01:14:19,980 --> 01:14:24,420
afraid and not be in danger.
You're safe here with me,

1311
01:14:24,940 --> 01:14:27,660
probably.
Please follow the podcast, leave

1312
01:14:27,660 --> 01:14:32,460
a rating on Spotify or Apple, or
tell your friends and foes about

1313
01:14:32,460 --> 01:14:35,100
the show.
It would mean the world to me.

1314
01:14:35,380 --> 01:14:38,680
The underworld, obviously, I
mean, come on.

1315
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:40,280
Was that not?
Was that not clear?

1316
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:44,240
Madam Strange Ways is produced
and narrated by me.

1317
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,640
Madam Strange Ways theme music
is by

1318
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:53,200
marina.ryan@marinamakes.co.
Cover art is by Andrea Chisel

1319
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:56,160
Roldan at Cult of Teddy on
Instagram.

1320
01:14:56,440 --> 01:14:59,880
You can submit your own true
strange story at

1321
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:02,960
madamstrangeways.com or e-mail
it to

1322
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:08,400
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.
See you soon, she said

1323
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:27,520
ominously.
Found out was in an obvious

1324
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,840
place.
Or her spoons.

1325
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,520
I believe all her spoons were
taken out of her drawer.

1326
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:36,920
And she was, you know, blaming
the kids, saying you guys are

1327
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:38,920
digging in the yard, you're
taking all my spoons.

1328
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:43,320
But then she never realized that
all her spoons were gone, so her

1329
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,560
spoon started showing up a
couple at a time.

1330
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,640
It took us several days for her,
all her spoons to come back.

1331
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,920
Very, you know, very par for the
course really.

1332
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:56,600
It has very common for this.
It has taken sheets and towels

1333
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,000
and baking pans, household
items.

1334
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,480
It takes it.
Not that it's expensive or just.