The Conjuring True Story AKA Justice For Bathsheba: The Smurl Family & the Warrens' Paranormal Case Revealed | Ep #27

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If you have a true strange story
of the unexplained you'd like to

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hear, read on the podcast,
e-mail it to

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madamstrangeways@gmail.com, or
go to madamstrangeways.

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Dot com or just check the show
notes for a link.

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I can't wait to read it.
Welcome Strangelings to a

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special deep dive episode, the
third in my series of Ed and

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Lorraine Warren's classic
paranormal case files.

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In this case the Perrin family.
Haunting as.

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Usual, I'll share the scary
story first, then drag you down

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the rabbit hole with.
Me kicking and screaming.

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And by the way.
A Warren is literally a rabbit

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hole.
So in this case, I'll be

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dragging you down a Warren
Warren.

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And if that's what you're into,
well, maybe you would also like

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to hear your name read at the
beginning of every single

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episode, just like my 3 Patreon
subscribers.

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TJ Hotter.
G Man Music and Ted, thank you

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so much to my unholy Trinity.
If you would like a free sticker

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with subscription and an
exclusive guided sleep

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meditation narrated by yours
truly, join the Patreon at

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patreon.com/madam Strangeways.
And now on to the story of the

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Perrin family Haunting here on
Madam Strange Ways.

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The Perrin Family Haunting In
the bitter January winter of

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1971, the Perrins moved their
large family from bustling New

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York City to the quiet, peaceful
town of Burlville, Rhode Island.

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During a snowstorm no less.
Roger and Carolyn Perrin, along

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with their five daughters, moved
into the old Richardson Arnold

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Estate at 1677 Round Top Rd., A
farmhouse dating back to 1736.

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The sprawling 14 room house
seemed like a dream come true to

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the Perrins.
But almost immediately the dream

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turned into nothing short of a
nightmare that seemed it would

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never end.
It started small.

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An old banjo clock on the wall
seemed to have a mind of its

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own.
Despite the family never winding

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the clock and keeping the hands
set both to 12, Caroline would

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wake every morning to find the
clock set to 5:15.

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Over and over she would set the
clock back to 12.

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And though the hands would never
move during the day, in the

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night the clock would always
move on its own back to 5:15.

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One evening, Carolyn had taken a
bath and retreated to a small

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room off the bathroom, a chimney
room that was warmer than the

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rest of the house.
She often used it as a dressing

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room for its warmth and even
turned it into her clothes

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closet.
As she bent down to pull on her

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warm wool socks, something
struck her, then began attacking

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her in earnest, blow after blow,
crying out in terror.

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She realized with the shock that
it wasn't someone who had broken

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in who was attacking her.
It was, inexplicably, a coat

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hanger, controlled by some
unseen force.

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Finally, the hanger dropped
lifelessly to the floor as if

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nothing had happened.
Stunned, she tried to explain

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what just happened.
Logically, a single strike might

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have been coincidental if she
had knocked the clothes hanger

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the wrong way, but not the
deliberate, rhythmic force that

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had just rained down upon her.
The dining room doors, boarded

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shut with planks and fencing
wire, burst open one night, as

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though some hulking, unseen
thing had forced its way

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through.
The piano in the parlour would

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play on its own, eerie,
discordant notes drifting

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through the house in the dead of
night.

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It was not a player piano.
One particularly chilly evening,

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Caroline sat by the fire with
her girls to enjoy some sun

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kissed oranges.
She sliced into one of the

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oranges, only to find thick,
dark red blood oozing from the

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segments, dripping down onto her
bare feet.

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Her daughters all screamed,
assuming their mother had cut

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herself badly with the knife.
But Caroline hadn't cut herself,

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only the orange, which bled like
a stuck pig at night.

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Caroline once woke trembling
with cold, hoping to steal some

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body heat from her husband.
Curled up beside her to no

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avail, she became aware suddenly
of the terrible, gut wrenching

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stench of mouldy, dead, rotten
meat, and then a presence.

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They weren't alone in the room,
a dark figure loomed the edge of

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her bed.
When she finally dared to look,

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she saw unmistakably the shape
of a woman in a severe dark grey

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dress, its fabric gathered at
the waist with a heavy belt.

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When she glanced up to where the
head should have been, there was

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only something black and
shapeless that sagged from her

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shoulders.
A woven sack?

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A veil?
Caroline couldn't tell.

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This ghostly presence was said
to be the spirit of a witch who

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had lived in the house 150 years
prior, who had murdered her own

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baby girl as a sacrifice to the
devil.

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It's said that once she was
caught, she hanged herself on

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the estate, an ultimate insult
to her creator and a gift to the

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Dark Lord she served all to
haunt the land for eternity.

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The which entity moved through
the room soundlessly.

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Suddenly, a voice, hollow and
human but altogether wrong, rose

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from the walls.
The chanting bounced from wall

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to wall, echoing tortuously in a
deafening crescendo until she

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had to cover her ears with both
hands.

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It said get it out, get it out,
get out.

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Terrified, she turned to her
sleeping husband, shaking him

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violently, calling his name,
pleading for him to wake up and

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witness the horror.
But Roger could not be roused,

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no matter how hard she tried, as
if he were in a coma that he

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might never wake from.
Then the witch's chanting

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changed.
I'll drive you out with fiery

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brooms.
I'll drive you mad with death

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and gloom.
Caroline hid beneath the

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blankets, her heart hammering in
her chest, until finally the

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voice suddenly stopped.
When she eventually convinced

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herself to peek, the headless
woman was gone, but the stench

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remain, the scent of rotting
flesh lingering long after the

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spectre had vanished.
The witch's apparition wasn't

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confined to the bedroom,
however.

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One night, Caroline sat in the
parlour, reading a book.

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In the blink of an eye, the air
thickened and turned putrid.

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That familiar scent of decay
flooded the room, and she knew

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exactly what that meant.
The headless woman was there, in

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the room with her.
She tried to ignore it and

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pretend she didn't notice, at
least until she felt a sharp

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pain on her leg, as if she'd
just been stung or stabbed.

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She gasped and reached down,
only to find a single drop of

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blood welling from a tiny
puncture in her calf, as if

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she'd been pricked with a large,
sharp needle.

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Then one night, the spectre came
for Roger.

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Sitting alone at the kitchen
table, eating his dinner of

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steamed clams, he heard a sound
come from the cellar.

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He froze, listening intently as
slow, heavy, deliberate steps

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climbed up the cellar stairs.
Then the latch of the cellar

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door clicked.
It creaked open.

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Roger, fed up with such
nonsense, slammed his first on

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the table.
Come out here and talk to me, he

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boomed.
Or go to hell where you belong.

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In the ensuing silence, he held
his breath.

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Then the cellar door merely shut
itself again with a quiet click.

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The next morning he awoke to
find 3 deep scratches on his

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elbow, red and raw, with no
explanation.

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By then the family had had
enough.

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Desperate, they reached out to
local paranormal investigators

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and word finally made its way to
Ed and Lorraine Warren, a

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husband and wife paranormal
investigator team who worked in

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the New England area.
The Warrens, upon setting foot

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in the parent home, immediately
sensed an infestation of dark,

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demonic energy.
They interviewed Caroline and

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were concerned, but not
surprised by the slew of evil

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presences they sensed.
They spoke of a long, unbroken

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history of suffering and torment
that plagued the estate going

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back hundreds of years.
The Warrens even held a seance

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with Carolyn and Roger to
attempt communication with the

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most malevolent of entities in
the home, The witch.

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It didn't go well.
Concerned for his wife's mental

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and physical health, Roger
kicked both Ed and Lorraine out

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of their home mid seance.
Whatever it was the Warrens had

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done that night, it had only
made things worse, and Roger

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wouldn't allow them to put his
wife or children in any more

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danger.
The Arnold house remained, the

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entity remained, the parents
endured for another seven years

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in that home, and the clock
still struck 515 every morning.

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That was a retelling of the case
file of the Perrin family

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haunting the true, allegedly
true story behind the very first

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film of the 2 billion with AB
dollar movie franchise, The

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Conjuring.
So The Conjuring one, that's

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what you just heard.
As a reminder, this is a part of

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a series on the Ed and Lorraine
Warren case files.

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So if you're curious, you can go
check out the Amityville episode

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and also the Annabelle episode,
which are the ones before this.

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It's not episodic.
You don't have to go listen to

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them, but you sure can and I do
highly recommend it.

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So as a further reminder, Ed and
Lorraine Warren were a famous,

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some would say infamous
paranormal investigator couple

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that operated from the early 50s
all the way to their deaths in

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2006 and 2019 respectively.
Ed rebranded himself as a quote

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UN quote demonologist
conveniently in the demon craze

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that the release of the movie
The Exorcist left in its wake.

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He was not called a demonologist
prior to that movie coming out,

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interestingly enough.
But make no mistake, Ed was

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self-taught.
And by self-taught I mean that

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he created his own demonic lore
in the same way that the show

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Supernatural did.
You know, except that The CW

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never claimed that Supernatural
was based on a true story.

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Or if they did do that, no one
believed them so it doesn't

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matter.
Lorraine Warren claimed to be a

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clairvoyant or a quote UN quote
light trance medium, which

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mostly means that she could
telepathically communicate with

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people and ghosts and demons and
creatures like Bigfoot.

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Which yes.
Was published in the Warren's

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non fiction book Ghost Hunters.
A story in which Lorraine Warren

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telepathically communicates with
Bigfoot.

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Now, I'm not saying Bigfoot's
not real, but I just don't know

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that that's the best use of
Bigfoot's time.

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Bigfoot has like bigger and
better and footer things to do,

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bigger footer things to do.
So Ed and Lorraine were both

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catapulted into paranormal fame
by making a pit stop at the

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Amityville house and milking
that for all it was worth

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forever, and then kind of doing
the same thing at the Enfield

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Poltergeist house too.
They really were the OG

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paranormal investigators.
Like they were doing it when

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other people were not.
Doing it yet they.

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Were they were indie paranormal
investigators like.

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Way before it was cool.
I, I mean, me personally, I, I

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probably, no, definitely would
not be making this podcast if

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they had not become paranormal
investigators, but not in a good

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way, not in a good way, not like
they inspired me, but in a

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different, worse way.
So I want to take just a quick

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second and give some context for
why I feel the way that I do

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about the Warrens, which is to
say riled.

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That's the way that I feel about
them.

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I do go into this in depth in my
Annabelle episode, so I won't go

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too far into it now, but I just
want to give some context.

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My whole thing is about
reminding you that you can feel

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afraid and not be in danger.
But Ed and Lorraine Warren, they

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wanted you to feel afraid, and
they wanted you to feel like you

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were in real, honest danger,
regardless of whether they

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believed in what they were
doing, which there's strong

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evidence to suggest that Ed, at
the very least, thought that we

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were all a bunch of rubes.
That doesn't excuse the

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continuous harm that they've
left behind.

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All for what?
The sake of fame and movie deals

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doesn't seem worth it to me.
And not to mention the damage

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that they've done to the
paranormal community.

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I mean, there's so many
fascinating, terrifying, and

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truly compelling true
unexplained stories out there,

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and some of y'all are even kind
enough to let me share those

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stories with the world.
We don't.

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We don't need flim flammery
muddying the paranormal water.

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It's unnecessary.
Weirdly enough, both Ed and

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Lorraine are names on my
mother's side of the family,

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which that side of the family
was the source of my own

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personal religious slash
invisible demon drama as a

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child, which is the reason why
I'm making this podcast today.

223
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,040
Something.
About those names, Yeesh.

224
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,160
Anyway, just remember you can
feel afraid and not be in

225
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,160
danger, especially did I say
especially we're going to just,

226
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,120
we're, I'm on a roll.
Especially if it has to do with

227
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:18,800
literally anything that comes
out of Ed Warren's mouth.

228
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,080
And now on to our sources.
Unlike the case file for

229
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,440
Annabelle, which was published
in the book The Demonologist,

230
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:33,160
the case file behind the Perrin
Family Haunting it was never

231
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,480
formally published, which, as
you'll see, is sort of by

232
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,440
design.
So we'll never actually truly

233
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:46,520
know the full juicy details of
this particular case file of the

234
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,720
Warrens, which is something that
we'll talk more about in a bit.

235
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,400
So just put a pen in that.
But the story that we just heard

236
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,120
was cobbled together and based
on two sources.

237
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,520
The 1st is a 1973 recorded
interview with Carolyn Perrin

238
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,280
and Ed Warren, which I found on
YouTube.

239
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,160
And I cannot tell what the
source is.

240
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,080
It's got like a, an interviewer
from it sounds like, you know, a

241
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,720
television segment.
And his name is John Larrabee.

242
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:24,160
And I can't find who he is or
what channel it was on or what

243
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,480
was the original source, but it
was a recorded interview.

244
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,640
It had Carolyn Perrin, it had Ed
Warren, it was from 1973.

245
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,080
It was actually from All Saints
Day on 1973.

246
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,640
So that's the day after
Halloween.

247
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,400
So the second source is the
parent family case file as

248
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,520
published on the New England
Society for Psychic Research

249
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,400
site, otherwise known as Nesper,
which is the society that Ed and

250
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,200
Lorraine Warren first founded
back in the 50s.

251
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,520
However, since both of them have
since passed, the running of

252
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,840
said society has passed to their
son-in-law Tony Sparrow, who

253
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,360
runs the site and also the
society.

254
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:16,960
Weirdly, the URL for the Nesper
site is not N espr.com or New

255
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,880
England Society for
psychicresearch.com.

256
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,880
It's which is too long.
OK, I'm not saying it should be

257
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:29,240
that, I'm just saying it's not.
No, the website for Nesper is

258
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,560
tonysparrow.com.
OK, to be fair.

259
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:39,560
OK, nesper.com is taken.
I can't see by who nesper.com is

260
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,840
taken, but I just checked
godannynesper.net that's

261
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,760
available and it's not expensive
and I.

262
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,400
Just learned this.
Another site that's available is

263
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,600
nesper dot Calvin Klein, because
apparently dot Calvin Klein is a

264
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,400
domain extension that you can
have now, which is a thing that

265
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,080
someone might want, must want,
or you can.

266
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:08,040
Choose.dadinsteadof.com or dot
dot.

267
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800
So you could have nesper dot
dot.

268
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,080
You could also have nesper dot
Unicorn.

269
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,520
Anyway, there's lots of options.
There's lots of opportunities

270
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,640
there.
He could be using any

271
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,000
combination.
He could have any Nesper site

272
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,360
that has a Nesper in the name.
Instead he chooses to host it on

273
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:31,640
tonyspara.com, which is weird,
but that's one of the sources.

274
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,720
So the point is, the second
source for the original case

275
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:40,640
file story that I retold just
recently 5 minutes ago is the

276
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,920
Nesper site, which is not
available at

277
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,960
nesper.shoesornesper.horsebutisavailable@tonysparrow.com.
Really weird.

278
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,720
For the rest of the episode
where we dig into the real meat

279
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,000
of the story though, and the
actual history, here are the

280
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,040
rest of the sources.
Source #1 The Exorcist Effect by

281
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,160
Eric Harrelson and Joseph
Laycock, which is still my new

282
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,120
favorite book.
I think it's going to just have

283
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,960
to stay up there forever.
So Eric Joseph, authors of the

284
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,960
book, Eric Joseph, if you're
listening, I beg you to please

285
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,480
release an audio book because if
you have not listened to the

286
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,160
Annabelle episode, I am
listening to the book by having

287
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,560
Alexa narrate it to me.
And I'm just going to say it's

288
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,800
not an ideal performance.
Alexa is doing her best and I

289
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,200
support her in her efforts, just
not ideal so.

290
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:43,160
Listen, if you could, please,
Joe, can I call you Joe?

291
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,480
Joe and Eric, if y'all could
please release an audio book,

292
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,960
you know what?
I'll record it.

293
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,560
Hit me up
madamstrangeways@gmail.com

294
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,400
because I love this book and I
highly recommend it to anyone

295
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,480
listening.
Or I am happy to continue to

296
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:05,560
absorb it via Alexa in my ear
holes and then tell you stories

297
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,360
and snippets about it through
the podcast.

298
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,160
Happy to continue doing that.
So that's source number one.

299
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,880
Source #2 I found this.
Slew.

300
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,200
Of excellent detailed research
articles.

301
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,720
They're just amazing and there's
so many of them and so detailed.

302
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,480
Published by Jamie Rubio, who is
a historical investigative

303
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:32,520
journalist, and you can find her
blogs via jamierubiowriter.com.

304
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,600
The information about Bathsheba
Sherman especially was sourced

305
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,160
from her blog entries and also
her book Stories of the

306
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,680
Forgotten, Volume 1, Infamous,
Famous and Unremembered.

307
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,120
I found her because The Exorcist
Effect cited her as a source,

308
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,720
and then I found her blog, and
then I reached out to her and

309
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:59,520
she has just been so incredibly
lovely and so helpful and just

310
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,080
the most dedicated to clearing
Bathsheba Sherman's put a pin in

311
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,480
that.
Welcome back to it.

312
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,920
That might be a spoiler.
So if you're interested in

313
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,480
especially the history of
Bathsheba Sherman or The

314
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:16,040
Conjuring House or any other
bizarre, strange, mysterious

315
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,680
stories of women in history, go
by Jamie Rubio's book Stories of

316
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,760
the Forgotten or check out her
blogs.

317
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,480
Source #3 is Kenny Bettel and
Joe Nickel over at the Skeptical

318
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,960
Inquirer who have both done also
a tremendous amount of research

319
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,720
on both the history of the
Arnold turned Perrin turned

320
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,920
Conjuring House and also the
claims made by the Perrins and

321
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,320
the Warrens.
Nickel has also written the

322
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,760
book.
Bear with me here.

323
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,920
This is the name of the book,
American hauntings, Colon, the

324
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,640
true stories behind Hollywood's
scariest movies, and N dash from

325
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,720
The Exorcist to The Conjuring.
Now, that might be an M dash

326
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600
because I know Google doesn't
use the right one.

327
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,400
Google Google Docs uses the N
dash and it means to use the M

328
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,480
dash.
So I don't know which one it is.

329
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:07,760
It doesn't matter.
We're moving on.

330
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,840
So that's one of the other
sources, Kenny Betel, Joe

331
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,200
Nickel, the Skeptical Inquirer,
and of course, many smaller

332
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,440
sources such as Collider and
Vulture.

333
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,400
You know, for some tasty little
morsels that were hidden in

334
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,160
interviews with the film makers.
And we'll hear about that later

335
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,960
on.
So listeners familiar with The

336
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,600
Conjuring story or if you have
done any amount of research on

337
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,640
it, you may notice what I have
not listed as a source for this

338
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:40,440
episode, which is any of the
three books written by Andrea

339
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,800
Perrin, who is the eldest
daughter of the Perrin family

340
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,360
who did live through whatever it
is that happened at the old

341
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:53,600
Arnold Estate.
Easily 40%, forty, 2% of what

342
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,680
I've read and listened to about
this story and.

343
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,000
The.
Extreme amount of research that

344
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,080
I've done incorrectly claims
that The Conjuring movie was

345
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,320
based on the book trilogy
written by Andrea Perrin.

346
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,400
Now I get it.
I mean, I can see why you would

347
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,040
think that because a her name is
Perran.

348
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,720
She's got the last name Perran.
By the way, it is pronounced

349
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,920
Perran, not Perrone, not Perran.
Perran.

350
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,520
I I get it.
You see her name and also you

351
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,320
hear that the movie is based on
a true story.

352
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,400
So.
One might guess, one might

353
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:37,360
assume that there must be a
story somewhere that they can

354
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,400
read in order to read the true
story.

355
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,120
Just like with Amityville, just
like with Annabelle, how you can

356
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:46,760
read that story in The
Demonologist.

357
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,800
But the first book in Andrea
Perrin's series, House of

358
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,080
Darkness, House of Light, was
published in 2011, and the

359
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,160
screenplay for The Conjuring
really technically began way

360
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,440
back in the mid to late 90s.
So we'll split the difference

361
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,240
and we'll land on the fact that
The Conjuring movie project was

362
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,760
greenlit by New Line Cinema in
2009, which is still before

363
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,720
Perrin finished writing her
first book, which, by the way,

364
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,280
she wrote 40 years after her
experiences in the Arnold

365
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:28,680
estate. 40 years.
Even if something terrifying is

366
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,000
seared into your brain at the
age of 12, that's still a lot of

367
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,440
time between experiencing it and
writing about it.

368
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,440
But she managed to write
something like 1400 pages about

369
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,400
it despite the passing of time.
I mean, not only that, but when

370
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,720
you experience something
traumatic, especially as a

371
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,920
child, your brain has a tendency
to just just play a little game

372
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,400
of forgetsies so that you don't
have to remember that traumatic

373
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,680
event.
So it's just interesting that

374
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,320
she remembered it in such
detail.

375
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,560
In fact, you know what?
Here's a fun fact.

376
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,400
Did you know that our brains,
unknowingly, without our

377
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,440
permission and without our
knowledge, edit our memories of

378
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,080
the past, specifically when we
remember them, and then

379
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,200
effectively override that
original memory every single

380
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,520
time we access it?
So the more times that you've

381
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,920
accessed a memory, the least
likely that memory is to be

382
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,840
accurate.
The more often you remember

383
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:42,120
something, oh, the more times
that it's been edited and saved

384
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,760
over and you don't even know it.
I mean, think about a birthday

385
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,480
as a child.
Think about a childhood

386
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,240
birthday, or like a nice memory
of you when you were little or

387
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,160
even a bad memory, I guess.
I mean, sure, whatever.

388
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,800
I mean, probably don't do that.
But my point is, try to think of

389
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,440
something that happened when you
were younger.

390
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,040
Are you remembering what your
parents or siblings looked like

391
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,080
back then?
Can you really remember what

392
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,320
they looked like?
Are you picturing in your mind's

393
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,840
eye the face of your family
member from however many years

394
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,240
ago?
Or are you kind of picturing

395
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,800
them more now, how they look
now?

396
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,480
Or OK, maybe maybe you have a
Fantasia where you can't picture

397
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,560
things in your head like an
apple, right?

398
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,000
So maybe if that's the case,
then how about this?

399
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,200
Have you ever remembered
something which with with such

400
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,880
specific detail that you were
100% sure that you were right

401
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,680
about?
Like you just know, you know

402
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,920
that you wrote someone's number
down on a yellow post it note

403
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,640
and it's on your desk only to
find that actually what you

404
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,480
wrote it on was the back of an
envelope and the envelope was

405
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,320
not yellow at all.
Has your memory ever done that

406
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,160
to you?
Just just, I told you,

407
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,160
completely incorrect
information.

408
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,080
I mean, that's why eyewitness
accounts are some of the least

409
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,760
reliable types of evidence in
court cases.

410
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Why?
Because our memories are deeply

411
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,040
fallible even over a short
period of time, let alone over

412
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,280
the course of nearly 40 years.
From 1973 to 2011.

413
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,800
Actually.
From 1971, because that's when

414
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,080
they moved in 1971 to 2011.
Come on.

415
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,000
So anyway, that was completely
apropos of nothing and a total

416
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,040
tangent, and certainly had
nothing to do with why I've

417
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,200
excluded Andrea Perrin as a
source for this episode.

418
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,720
Totally unrelated, what I will
say about Andrea Perrin is that

419
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,120
if I encountered the Warrens at
an impressionable, formative

420
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,880
young age and my mother got
thrust into the spotlight for

421
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,440
coming forward about a haunted
house, I might too be hitting

422
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,480
the paranormal convention
circuit and Hawking my book

423
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,000
series.
I might also be doing that.

424
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,960
In fact, there's an alternate
universe somewhere where that

425
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:11,280
has happened, I'm sure of it.
That's where I I have had that

426
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,920
happen and I have written a
trilogy of book series and I go

427
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,600
on the paranormal convention
circuit.

428
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,960
I know that's happening.
So if you are a listener from

429
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,960
that other dimension where that
is my reality, let me know

430
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,480
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.
I want to hear from you.

431
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,840
So finally.
Go ahead, put on your wellies.

432
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,000
I think those are what they're
called in the UK.

433
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,120
What do they call them in
America?

434
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,640
Rain boots.
Put on your rain boots.

435
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,440
No, you're going to need,
they're going to need the thigh

436
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,720
high ones like the like the
cranberry guys.

437
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,240
Put on your cranberry waders.
While we wade into the.

438
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:56,280
Thick with two C's, perhaps even
3 primordially delicious sludge.

439
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,720
That is the Warren's case file
for the Perrin Haunting.

440
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,520
So it was important to me that I
share specifically only things

441
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,680
that I could confidently state
were straight from Carolyn

442
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,320
Perrin, the mother at the time
that the haunting was actually

443
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,160
happening, and man.
Did she have a lot to say?

444
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,800
In that recorded YouTube
interview.

445
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,320
OK, to be clear, it was not a
YouTube interview.

446
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,160
It's an interview that's now
been uploaded onto YouTube.

447
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,280
Clearly she was not being
interviewed on YouTube.

448
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,480
She had a lot to say and it's
really interesting, really

449
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,280
weird.
Listen, if you, if you liked

450
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,080
listening to things like Art
Bell, you know, coast to coast,

451
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,960
go ahead, give it a listen.
I'll I'll have the link in the

452
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,200
show notes.
Something to note.

453
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:53,040
Though is that Ed?
'S interview style, it's leading

454
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,560
at best, and he stated early on
in this interview with her that

455
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,000
this was their second interview.
We don't hear the first one.

456
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,240
We only hear the second one
where he has clearly been able

457
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,000
to guide the story and nudge her
towards stories that he wants

458
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,280
her to tell and kind of quickly
move past ones maybe that he

459
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,480
doesn't.
But it's not just the actual

460
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,920
stories themselves that he is
leading her about.

461
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:28,760
He also, this was crazy when she
was telling him the lengthy and

462
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,639
admittedly terrifying story of
the old woman with the black

463
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:34,719
sack over her head and the bent
neck.

464
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,800
He asked her if it resembled
someone who had been hung by the

465
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,520
neck.
And she said, you know, oh, you

466
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:44,880
know what?
Actually, now that you say that,

467
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,480
yeah, I kind of did look like
that.

468
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,560
Maybe it was.
Maybe that is it, you know, So a

469
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,159
little bit of a leading the
witness situation and harkening

470
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:57,080
back to how memories work.
Maybe the next time she told

471
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,120
that story she included that
detail and forgot that she had

472
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,760
ever told the story differently
to begin with.

473
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,760
He would even, and this is wild
to me.

474
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,080
She would tell him some
absolutely horrific and just

475
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,600
like mind blowing story that
happened to her and his.

476
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,960
Response would just.
Be like now what else happened

477
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,880
by the fireplace?
Like no questions.

478
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Like excuse me my dude, she just
told you she was attacked by an

479
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,760
invisible spirit using a clothes
hanger and your response is like

480
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,800
now what else happened?
No, no questions, no questions.

481
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,320
He didn't even ask a single
question to understand the

482
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,280
bleeding orange situation.
Just so strange.

483
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,640
OK, so Speaking of Speaking of
orange, there's a lot of weird

484
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,360
details that jumped out at me.
The first being, what the hell

485
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,760
is a banjo clock?
I had to leave that detail in

486
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,200
because she specified it was a
banjo clock so I had to look it

487
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,640
up.
Apparently it's a type of clock

488
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:05,000
that is in the general vague.
Shape of a banjo so like a round

489
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,200
face and then a long other like
neck was that I don't I don't

490
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,920
know music stuff.
So the clock face would be on

491
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,680
the the banjo Y part, the round
banjo part.

492
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,480
So like details like mentioning
the banjo clock kind of make me

493
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,200
think that Carolyn really was
experiencing something with the

494
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,120
clock hands moving, even though,
you know, OK, the clock didn't

495
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,320
run on batteries and the clock
wasn't wound.

496
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,760
So the clock should not have
been moving at all.

497
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,520
The clock hands shouldn't have
been moving.

498
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,560
But the fact that she mentioned
the banjo clock would be a

499
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,000
really weird detail.
To include to me or I don't

500
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,000
know, maybe banjo clocks from
more standard in the. 70s If

501
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,200
you've you know what, if you've
got a banjo clock, let me know

502
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,080
madamstrangeways@gmail.com I
would love to see a photo of

503
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,080
your banjo clock.
Hopefully the hands on the clock

504
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,240
are not moving without any
electricity or winding it.

505
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,960
Let me know.
Another thing that jumped out at

506
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,320
me about the story was Carolyn
making sure to let us know that

507
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:19,480
the orange that bled human blood
was a sun kissed Orange sun

508
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,480
kissed TM.
Oh, actually it's sorry.

509
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,160
It's a registered symbol.
Sun kissed registered symbol And

510
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,560
I want you to know just how much
willpower just went into me not

511
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,760
looking up the technical
differences between trademark

512
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,920
and registered.
Anyway, sun kissed like talk

513
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,880
about strange details to
include.

514
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,920
Like Carolyn, what is this?
What is this, a paid

515
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,080
sponsorship?
Was this all just was?

516
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,840
Was the entire Perrin haunting
and The Conjuring story?

517
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,440
Was this all just one long con
by sun kissed to sell more

518
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,520
literal blood oranges?
Like was Carolyn the original

519
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,240
affiliate marketer slash
influencer?

520
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,520
Like what?
What are we doing?

521
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,160
What are we doing here?
Why is it sun kissed?

522
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,120
I just thought that was so funny
to me and really took me out of

523
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,520
the story.
I had to include it.

524
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,520
Maybe it took you out of the
story too.

525
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,000
Sorry I I had to like what
maybe.

526
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,920
You know what I've been
thinking?

527
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,640
Maybe sun kissed oranges were
kind of new back then.

528
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:25,480
I'm not going to.
OK?

529
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,680
I'm not going to go down this
rabbit hole.

530
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,080
You know what?
You know what?

531
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,200
You're welcome.
For not going down another

532
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,000
rabbit hole because I have gone
down so many already.

533
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:39,320
So somehow more ridiculous than
mentioning sun kissed is what Ed

534
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:45,760
Warren said in that interview
about the bloody sun kissed

535
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,840
registered symbol orange.
You know what, actually, OK, I

536
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,120
want you to guess.
Just take a few seconds.

537
00:38:54,680 --> 00:39:00,160
I want you to guess what.
Explanation Ed Warren gives for

538
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:05,560
a blood No, for an orange.
A normal orange, not a blood

539
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,560
orange.
I want you to guess what

540
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,640
Explanation Ed Warren gives for
a normal, regular sun kissed

541
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:18,080
orange to bleed human blood.
I want you to guess he's

542
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,000
completely serious.
OK, Ready.

543
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:27,880
All right, Here is verbatim what
Ed Warren said as an explanation

544
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,880
for why a sun kissed registered
symbol orange would bleed human

545
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,320
blood.
Here it is.

546
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,320
This comes through teleportation
where the molecular structure of

547
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,920
the substance or the items
broken down to dematerialized

548
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,160
teleported to another area and
it is then seen and viewed in

549
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,360
that area.
And that is to say that was real

550
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,560
blood.
Oh yes it was real.

551
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:03,800
OK hmm.
Well when pressed to explain

552
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:10,640
where this real blood was
teleported from and into the sun

553
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,520
kissed registered symbol orange.
Edwin continued.

554
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,040
This blood would have come from
a number of places.

555
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,560
It could have been taken from
just any individual, the

556
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,680
structure of the blood being
broken down, much as it is in

557
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,240
lycanthropy where you have
vampirism.

558
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,440
The demonic spirit which
inhabits the vampire of the

559
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,680
physical body of a person who
would be known as a vampire,

560
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:42,040
does not actually bite into the
neck of a human being and suck

561
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,560
the blood out.
It uses the qualities of magic.

562
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,920
In regards to teleportation
again, where the substance is

563
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,200
broken down and materialized,
that is.

564
00:40:54,520 --> 00:41:00,760
A quote I heard him say it.
This was not an AI deepfake.

565
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:06,760
He said those words like I'm
what?

566
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,800
Excuse me, Excuse me, How?
How did we get here?

567
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,680
How did we get from sun kissed
to vampires?

568
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,920
And also lycanthropy is about
werewolves.

569
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,840
So how did we get from sun
kissed to werewolves?

570
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,120
And now hold on because now
vampires are real, but they use

571
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,440
vampire magic to teleport
people's blood out of their

572
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:39,080
bodies and into their mouths.
Like, hold on because we're

573
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,960
burying the lead here.
That is the real story.

574
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,440
This is what the movie should
have been about.

575
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,240
This is the movie that needs to
be made is vampires.

576
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,640
And look lycanthropy and
teleporting blood.

577
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,800
So when you really break it
down, The Conjuring movie or the

578
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,280
story of The Conjuring was more
or less just kind of like a

579
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,240
haunted house movie with the
addition of paranormal

580
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:08,200
investigators as an, albeit OK
successful gimmick.

581
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,960
Family buys new house.
House is haunted by ghosts.

582
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:17,120
Family is terrorized by said
ghosts slash demons, some of

583
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,280
which of course turned out to be
Satanists.

584
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,360
Ed and Lorraine sweep it, swoop
in and save the day and

585
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,720
introduce you by the way, to
Annabelle so they can set up a

586
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:31,360
spin off.
Well, quick reminder, the

587
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,480
parents lived in that house for
nine years and were in that

588
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,880
house for six years after the
Warrens came the last time.

589
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,600
And in in fact, they still claim
that the Warrens did more harm

590
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,880
than good.
But jumping back to the whole

591
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,160
satanic ghost inside a haunted
house thing, here's something I

592
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,080
really regret not mentioning in
the Amityville episode.

593
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,840
You'll never guess what these
two stories have in common.

594
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,840
If you guessed, though
correctly, that they both follow

595
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,400
the same basic plot, you win a
prize.

596
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,680
You win.
E-mail me

597
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,880
madamstrangeways@gmail.com if
that's what you guessed.

598
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:16,880
So here's an actual description
of one of the movies that I just

599
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,080
changed like 2 words in.
OK, Horror film about a family

600
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,680
who are terrorized by
supernatural forces.

601
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,440
When they move into a new house
in New England, which was once

602
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,240
home to an 18th century
Satanist, it's the exact same

603
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,000
story, It's the same movie.
Amityville and the parent

604
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,160
family.
Now the parent family did happen

605
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,720
prior to Amityville, OK, I'm
just going to put that put that

606
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:45,320
there.
We're going to return to that,

607
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:48,560
but it is the exact same story.
It's just that The Conjuring has

608
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:54,960
Bathsheba Sherman as the alleged
Satanist and Amityville had John

609
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,400
Ketchum as the alleged Satanist
who is not a Pokémon trainer.

610
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,560
Apparently both Bathsheba
Sherman and John Ketchum,

611
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,040
though, were real people,
Totally normal, real people who

612
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,960
were not Satanists who have been
painted.

613
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:17,320
As Satanists by modern brushes
for the sake of sensationalism,

614
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,960
period.
That is the only reason they

615
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,800
just take these two people.
They say they were alive a

616
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,160
really long time ago.
We need a better story.

617
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,120
Let's make them Satanists.
So we'll discuss.

618
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,560
We'll discuss Bathsheba in much
more detail in a moment, or 12

619
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,160
or 13 or 666.
Just we'll get there soon.

620
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,880
So you may or may not be saying
at this point, but Madam, The

621
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,840
Amityville Horror didn't come
out until 1979 and the parents

622
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,320
met with the Warrens in 1973.
So Amityville couldn't possibly

623
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,200
have impacted the parents story.
OK, Well, you, you got me there.

624
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,600
You're right.
Very good Gold Star.

625
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,200
Except that I'm not arguing that
Amityville impacted the Parents.

626
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:07,760
No, no, no, I'm arguing that
yes, it was The Exorcist.

627
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,280
A familiar argument if you've
listened to the other two Warren

628
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,760
Case File episodes that I've
done.

629
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,520
The Exorcist book came out in
1971, the very same year that

630
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,120
the Parents moved into the
estate.

631
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,560
And the movie The Exorcist came
out in late 1973, actually the

632
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,560
day after Christmas, admittedly
almost two months after the

633
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,360
recorded interview with Carolyn
Perrin and Ed Warren that

634
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,120
informed my rewrite at the
beginning of the episode.

635
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,200
So plenty of time for the book,
at the very least, to have

636
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,400
impacted them.
But wait, there's more.

637
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,720
Rosemary's Baby.
The movie was released in 1968,

638
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,320
and the book was released in
1967.

639
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,360
And as a reminder, that movie
also dealt with moving into a

640
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,840
new place and encountering a
coven of Satanist witches.

641
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,400
Isn't that interesting?
So here's an excerpt from The

642
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,480
Exorcist Effect that I that's
fun.

643
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,840
Excerpt.
Excerpt from The Exorcist

644
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,360
Effect.
An Exorcist excerpt.

645
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,760
An excerpt from The Exorcist
Effect.

646
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,920
Ah, wait, the excerpt cyst.
There it is.

647
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,960
All right, I'm moving on that.
I tried to paraphrase, but it

648
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,120
was really just more impactful
hearing it in their words, so

649
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,760
I'm just going to read this
brief part for you.

650
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:35,880
Fact and fiction can also become
blurred through confabulation, a

651
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,720
type of memory error in which
fictional images and narratives

652
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:45,480
come to fill in gaps in memory,
thus confusing fact and fiction.

653
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,160
Cognitive scientists such as
Jeffrey Zacks, who has written

654
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,600
on this problem as it relates to
movies, have noted that the

655
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,800
brain is better at retaining
information than the source of

656
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,120
that information, especially
over time.

657
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,080
There is evidence that
depictions of events in film

658
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,760
trump other sources of
information in shaping what

659
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,800
viewers believe to be true.
Zacks performed a research study

660
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,400
in which subjects were presented
with accurate essays about

661
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,720
several historical events.
The subjects were then shown

662
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,280
movies that depicted the same
events they had just read about,

663
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,360
but clearly distorted the
information in the essays.

664
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,320
When subjects were asked to
recall accurate information

665
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,960
about the events, they accepted
about 40% of the film

666
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:44,280
distortions as true.
It did not matter whether the

667
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,920
subjects watched the movies
before or after they read the

668
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,480
essays, the movie version was
consistently remembered as the

669
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,000
true version.
Zach's notes that human memory

670
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,720
is adapted to be good at
recalling information, but not

671
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:04,720
necessarily the source of that
information.

672
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,760
He explains.
I think we are optimized to

673
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,200
build representations of events
that allow us to function

674
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,360
effectively, and most of the
time there is no particular need

675
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,840
to sort out the source of our
memories.

676
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,000
Furthermore, film as a medium is
likely more suited than books

677
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,600
for created false memories.
If you are trying to remember

678
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,960
something and you recall verbal
content, you may also recall

679
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,280
that this is information you
read somewhere.

680
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:40,520
But if you recall images or a
feeling of emotional intensity,

681
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,600
you may conclude that you are
remembering something you

682
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,080
personally experienced.
Now, I don't think we'll ever

683
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,680
know if Carolyn Perrin watched
or read either The Exorcist or

684
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,800
Rosemary's Baby, but at a
minimum, both movies made such a

685
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,760
huge impact that like, remember,
OK, remember, just a reminder, I

686
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,120
should say Rosemary's Baby came
out before we landed on the

687
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,800
moon.
They didn't have thousands of

688
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,200
movies coming out every year.
They couldn't stream whatever

689
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,880
movie they wanted at any time.
Rosemary's Baby was completely

690
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,560
new more or less to most people
that are going to the movies.

691
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,120
Completely new and terrified
people.

692
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,920
And the Rosemary's Baby led to
the movie The Exorcist.

693
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,200
The Exorcist led to the movie
The Omen and from there life has

694
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:37,600
never really ever been the same.
Just just interesting to me how

695
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,360
fallible our brains are and our
memories and how easily

696
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,720
manipulated they are even by
accident.

697
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,160
So you can only imagine how
easily manipulated our memories

698
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:55,040
are when a bad actor wants to
manipulate them.

699
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,200
Food for thought.
And I want to be clear, it

700
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,960
wouldn't have just been Carolyn
Perrin and her family who were

701
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,920
affected by those movies.
So as I mentioned in The

702
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,520
Amityville Horror episode, in
the wake of The Exorcist hitting

703
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,480
movie theaters, there was this
sudden and unprecedented demand

704
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,600
for exorcisms where there had
been none before.

705
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,320
Literally none.
Literally none.

706
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,080
My none, right.
But then suddenly lapsed

707
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,000
Catholics especially, who are
watching the exorcism, they are

708
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,720
freaking out.
They're losing their minds.

709
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:36,200
They're going to Catholic
churches.

710
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,160
They are seeking exorcism for
themselves, for their spouses,

711
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,200
for their children, for their
pets, literally for their cats.

712
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,280
Like which if your cat.
Isn't just a little bit

713
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,120
possessed with a demon, is it?
Even really a cat, I ask you.

714
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,440
So Ed obviously saw an
opportunity because I have never

715
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,640
met a more opportunistic person
in my life.

716
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,560
Ed saw his chance and he went
for it and he took it.

717
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,120
So people are freaking out about
Satan, they're freaking out

718
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,320
about demons.
And Ed was all too happy to

719
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:13,360
stoke their fears and pour fuel
on the fire.

720
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,120
He was happy to do it.
He's rubbing his hands, twisting

721
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,160
this little.
Mustache, I don't.

722
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:22,480
Think he really had a mustache,
but he maybe he grew one and

723
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,240
then he twisted the edges just
at this specific moment.

724
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:30,160
Because like I've said before,
Ed's entire business model is

725
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,320
based on fear mongering and
convincing you that invisible

726
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,800
evil entities could be lurking
in your home or wherever.

727
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,280
And only he and Lorraine can
help you.

728
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:48,360
For the low, low price of $0.00
and emotional turmoil sense, you

729
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,240
know it.
Come on.

730
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,160
You'd be losing money not
letting them into your home and

731
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,120
sharing all of your paranormal
experiences with them.

732
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,880
You'd be losing money.
So I said we'd come back to

733
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,200
Bathsheba Sherman, and here we
are.

734
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,320
Now, you may have noticed that
the story I told in the

735
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,320
beginning of the episode didn't
mention her by name at all,

736
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,680
really.
It was just kind of mentioning

737
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,440
this really creepy woman in a
dark dress with no head, but

738
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,280
kind of a head.
It's really unclear.

739
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,360
Anyway, she wasn't mentioned by
name.

740
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,640
She wasn't called Bathsheba
Sherman in that story.

741
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,280
And there's a reason for that,
because Carolyn Perrin didn't

742
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,600
mention Bathsheba's name at all
in that 1973 interview.

743
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,240
In fact, neither did Ed, for
that matter.

744
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:44,800
In fact, he went on in that same
interview to say this of the

745
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,520
Headless Woman ghost, a woman
who practiced witchcraft, who

746
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,960
had in her earlier years
actually murdered her own child

747
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,640
by driving a stake or a nail
through the head of the child as

748
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,880
a gift again to Lucifer and
black magic rituals.

749
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,760
This woman lived all of her life
in that home and practiced a

750
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,880
negative witchcraft, black
witchcraft, and then at age 97

751
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,960
years old made a pact with the
devil to commit suicide, which

752
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,120
is a great insult to the creator
to take the physical life away

753
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,840
from someone.
In this case she had destroyed

754
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:22,320
it on her own and this again
goes into black magic and a pact

755
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,240
with the devil.
The apparition like figure that

756
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:29,440
Missus Perrin had seen was this
woman.

757
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,640
OK so when did Bathsheba's name
get tangled up in the story

758
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,880
then?
Because if you look into the

759
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:41,160
Perrin family haunting, you'll
find so many people claiming

760
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,960
that Carolyn discovered
Bathsheba the Satan loving witch

761
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,440
on her own and her own research.
And a lot of other people claim

762
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,400
that Lorraine Warren pulled
Bathsheba's name from thin air

763
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,000
the moment she set foot in the
house.

764
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,920
So which is it?
Because I can't actually find

765
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,240
the very first reference to
Bathsheba because she wasn't

766
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:08,920
even referenced by name in a
1977 newspaper article in the

767
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,680
North Smithfield Burlville
Observer that references the

768
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,240
parents and mentions the
headless woman, but not by name.

769
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,560
And I quote according to the
tape and slide presentation the

770
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,320
Warrens gave at the Dalton
Theatre, The Ghost.

771
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,880
Is that of a woman who had lived
in the house 150 years ago,

772
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,040
practiced witchcraft and
murdered her young daughter as a

773
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,840
sacrifice to the devil.
Later she hanged herself as the

774
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,960
supreme insult to the Creator
and her gift to the devil.

775
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,280
In exchange for being allowed to
haunt the premises forever

776
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,480
after, the apparition appears as
an old woman with head hanging

777
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,240
to one side as if it had a
broken neck, the Warrens said in

778
00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:51,240
their program.
She is also.

779
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:54,560
Supposed to have promised all
her descendants to the devil.

780
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,240
OK, I want to share just.
This one line from that article

781
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,240
that I really liked, it was
above this part but I had to

782
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:06,240
include it.
It said it's not true that the

783
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:09,520
parents have been driven out by
the lady ghost, who reputedly is

784
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,000
no lady.
Like the shade, The shade that

785
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,600
they threw at come to find who
they would then eventually call

786
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,120
Bathsheba Sherman the shade.
Anyway, for my younger

787
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,920
listeners, if you're curious, a
tape and slide presentation just

788
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:31,040
means the lectures quote UN
quote, that Ed and Lorraine

789
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,200
Warren would give that shared
details about their cases.

790
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,960
And you know, that included
playing cassette tape recordings

791
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,840
and showing photo slides with a
projector like.

792
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,760
The first thing that comes to
mind is like Mindhunter on

793
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,120
Netflix for some reason, if you
want a reference for what they

794
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,480
were probably doing, they've got
a projector, they have a screen,

795
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,600
they're playing a.
Cassette tape.

796
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,840
Like this is old school.
So they would investigate

797
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,760
people's hauntings for free,
remember, But then they would

798
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,480
take that content that they
created on their tapes.

799
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,600
And the photographs that they
would have turned into slides so

800
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,600
that they could use a projector
to use it as part of their

801
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,480
lectures.
So they would take this content

802
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,240
that they created quote UN quote
they.

803
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:23,200
Stole.
From these people like they're

804
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,920
they've said that there's
something like 10,000 or more

805
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,840
cases that they investigated
over their career.

806
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,280
So they walk in, they take a
bunch of photos and they record

807
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,760
a bunch of content that other
people phone basically stole it

808
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:45,040
from them and then use that
content for their talks that

809
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,440
they charged for.
And then also they would take

810
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:53,080
that content that they lifted
and then use that content to

811
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,280
pitch ideas to movie makers and
booksellers.

812
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,640
Like literally this just sounds
like the YouTube content

813
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,760
creators.
Who like clean houses and do

814
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,360
mowing and edging for free What
is SB mowing?

815
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,120
I hope he's not problematic for
free you know in exchange for

816
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,360
because it's a they're not
stealing they're saying hi.

817
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,120
Can I provide this useful
service to you?

818
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,880
It's free for you so long as you
allow me to use it on my

819
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,480
channel, which is monetized so
that I can make money off of it.

820
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,040
And of course, people are happy
to do that because they needed

821
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,240
the service done.
However.

822
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,240
The service that Ed and Lorraine
Warren provided was not only

823
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,760
invisible like the entities they
claimed were manifest or

824
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:49,240
investing their house is also
not helpful and not real.

825
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,760
Definitely not as helpful as
getting your yard edged if you

826
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,960
know you're an old lady and you
can't get out there and edge

827
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,000
your own yard and you don't have
money to pay somebody.

828
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,040
I'm just saying.
So I want to clear, I want to be

829
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,520
clear YouTube content creators
who are offering a helpful

830
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,320
service.
I approve.

831
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,520
That is great.
I watch them and I love them.

832
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:16,040
What I don't love is Ed and the
rain Warren, who when they do

833
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:16,680
it, it's.
Gross.

834
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,400
What was also gross was that
they were still talking about

835
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,840
the Perrin family haunting years
after the last time that they

836
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,480
spoke to the Perrins after the
failed seance, Which, by the

837
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,600
way, it was a seance, not an
exorcism like the movie

838
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,120
portrayed.
Because even Ed will say no, no,

839
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,880
no, no, no, we can't do
exorcisms.

840
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,160
We're not with the church.
But then sometimes he would be

841
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,640
like, oh, I'm super important
and the church knows me and

842
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,640
loves me and gives me all this
secret information that you

843
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:53,000
don't have because you're not
like, super high up in in the

844
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,160
church as a demonologist.
OK, calm down, Ed.

845
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,480
Sit down.
So they were sharing the parent

846
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:04,560
family's dirty, spooky spectral
laundry for years after.

847
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:09,280
Because if they were watching
this tape and slide presentation

848
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:13,840
in 1977, the Warrens hadn't
spoken to the parents since

849
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,720
1974.
So they're still you see what I

850
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,200
mean?
Do you see what I'm saying?

851
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,320
Because not only that, but they
were sharing the address of

852
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,960
their home.
And so then now you got a bunch

853
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:29,880
of weirdos like me and possibly
you showing up at the parent

854
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,960
house.
Like that's just so annoying.

855
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,680
You saw the same thing, similar
thing happening at Amityville,

856
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:38,440
at the Amityville house,
although, OK.

857
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,600
There was a lot more that went
on at the Amityville house for

858
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:47,520
people to go visit, namely the
murdering of most of the De Feo

859
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,080
family at the hands of De Feo
Junior.

860
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:55,800
Anyway, moving on.
Bath back, back to Bathsheba?

861
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:02,520
Back in Bathsheba like back in
black, Is that something?

862
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,480
Is that is that good?
Back in Bathsheba?

863
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,640
I can't figure out exactly when
they decided decided to blame

864
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:17,520
everything on Bathsheba Sherman,
but sometime between 1974 and

865
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:22,760
the mid 80s, maybe 90s.
The Warrens definitely did.

866
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,840
They sure did, and so did the
Perrins.

867
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,480
So between the two of them, you
can't really pin it on one

868
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,240
specific person, but it came
from one of those families.

869
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,960
The parents.
Are the Warrens blackening Poor

870
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,320
Bathsheba's name now?
Remember, I'm trying not to lean

871
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,640
on Andrea Perrins claims as a
source here, but she has a lot

872
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:48,120
to say about Bathsheba, mostly
bad, even though Bathsheba was a

873
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,480
real person whose name and
legacy has been dragged through

874
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,040
the mud, including by her.
The real life Bathsheba Sherman

875
01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:00,680
was born Bathsheba Thayer in
1812, named after her father's

876
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:06,160
first wife, which is a choice.
She wasn't part of the Arnold

877
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,040
family at all.
We don't even know that she knew

878
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,840
the Arnold family.
So the family that lived.

879
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,520
On the Arnold estate that was
then turned into the parents

880
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,520
home that is now just called The
Conjuring House, Bathsheba

881
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:26,560
Sherman did.
Not live or work or potentially

882
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:31,520
ever set foot on that land.
So I'm not really sure how

883
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,080
you're going to blame this on
her.

884
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,840
Why would she haunt that house?
It doesn't make any sense.

885
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,280
So unlike her portrayal in The
Conjuring film.

886
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:44,400
No historical records, police
reports, court documents or

887
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:49,000
community accounts suggest that
Bathsheba ever harmed or killed

888
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:54,120
any children, let alone her own.
And she definitely didn't hang

889
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,760
herself.
The claim that she murdered a

890
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:01,640
baby with a knitting needle as a
sacrifice to Satan is completely

891
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,920
made-up.
And by the way, depending on who

892
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,720
you ask, sometimes it's a sewing
needle, sometimes it's a

893
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,360
knitting needle.
But Ed Warren in 1973 said it

894
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:15,880
was a steak or a nail.
However, it worked better for

895
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,840
his narrative to just say it was
a needle because oh, that ties

896
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,040
up nicely.
Saying that the ghost lady who's

897
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,200
reputedly no lady stabbed
Carolyn with the very same

898
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:26,960
needle that she murdered her
baby with.

899
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,480
Objection, your honor,
Sustained.

900
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:35,000
So if Bathsheba wasn't an evil
baby sacrificing murderous 97

901
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,520
year old Satanist witch, where
did all those accusations come

902
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:40,840
from?
Where there's smoke, there's

903
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,040
fire, right?
Well, sort of.

904
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,640
But also, you know what, that's
a good reminder.

905
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,360
Check the batteries and your
smoke detectors, everybody.

906
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,800
And if you have gas in your
house, make sure that you have

907
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:56,120
working CO2 detectors, please.
PSA go check.

908
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,400
I'll wait.
You can come back.

909
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:01,680
OK.
We're all good.

910
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,440
Perfect.
So you know, it is a good

911
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,480
question.
Like why all the libel and

912
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,880
slander to this poor woman with
an admittedly witchy sounding

913
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,880
name?
Because come on, Bathsheba.

914
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,160
Super cool name, sounds like a
witch.

915
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,920
Maybe I've been influenced.
By knowing that she's been

916
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:20,920
accused of.
Being a witch.

917
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:25,480
But what a cool name.
So Kent Spotswood, journalist

918
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:30,600
and local historian, suggested
that it was more or less just a

919
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,960
mishmash of different local
lore, Frankenstein together with

920
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,040
bits of truth and even bigger
bits of grossly fabricated

921
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:42,280
stories.
So listen, they've talked about

922
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,840
how there's all these different
deaths that happened at the

923
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,480
Arnold estate.
If you ask Carolyn Perrin, she

924
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,080
does list a ton of deaths that
happened on the estate, and

925
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,280
they're all grizzly and they're
all super dramatic.

926
01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:00,360
But listen, OK, Susan Arnold,
unrelated to the Arnold estate,

927
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,240
not part of the Arnold family,
just happens to have the same

928
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,040
last name.
A Susan Arnold did in fact hang

929
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:12,240
herself in 1886, but she neither
lived nor worked at the Arnold

930
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,880
house, soon to be The Conjuring
house.

931
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,880
There was also a Prudence Arnold
who was murdered by this

932
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,720
complete piece of human refuse,
William Knowlton.

933
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:30,520
But again, Prudence didn't live
or die at the Perrin slash

934
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,880
Arnold slash Conjuring estate,
and she also wasn't part of that

935
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:40,040
Arnold family amongst a bunch of
other local lore.

936
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:45,400
Overtime, likely what happened
is that people assumed that the

937
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:50,720
people named Arnold who died in
the area were probably of the

938
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,200
same Arnold's that now lived on
the old Arnold estate.

939
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:59,040
And then the lore began to grow
and morph like a game of

940
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,240
extremely morbid macabre
telephone.

941
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:07,960
OK, I think that makes sense,
but hold on a second because

942
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,360
isn't there another New England
witch that the Warrens are on

943
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,360
record discussing in 1974, the
exact same year they performed A

944
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:21,280
seance for the Perrins?
Oh yeah, that's right, the

945
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:26,320
Warrens were investigating in
1974 the Phelps mansion in

946
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:31,920
Stratford, CT when, shocker,
they discovered it was haunted

947
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:38,040
by a Satanist witch, Goody
Bassett, a woman executed for

948
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:42,520
witchcraft in 1651.
And OK, hold on a second, did

949
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,000
you know Goody is short for Good
Wife?

950
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,120
Like what in The Handmaid's Tale
is this?

951
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:53,080
And not only that, but Goody
Bassett lived on Elm Street.

952
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,920
Like, oh Good Wife Bassett of
the Elm Street.

953
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,240
Bassett's no relation to
Freddie.

954
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,400
Good Wife is apparently not even
like a real first name.

955
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:08,680
It's just like something you
call to a lower class woman

956
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,240
who's married in colonial times.
What was her even first name?

957
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,200
I can't even find it.
It's all just Goody and Good

958
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:15,360
Wife.
That's messed up.

959
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,320
I wonder what her birth name
was.

960
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,800
But all listen to this.
According to the Stratford

961
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:27,360
Crier, 372 years after she was
executed for witchcraft, IE

962
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,480
murdered after being forced or
tortured under.

963
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,360
Duress to confess to.
Being a witch, which she wasn't,

964
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:40,600
a witch, witch she wasn't.
Goody was officially exonerated

965
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:42,800
and honored with a plaque in her
name.

966
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:44,560
That's nice.
Good for her.

967
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:49,280
Less nice is the quote from this
article.

968
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,560
The charge of witchcraft was
ordinarily proffered to

969
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:58,320
outspoken women of a lower
social standing in the colony of

970
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:02,480
Connecticut, said David Wright,
Stratford's town historian.

971
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:07,400
Such women were oftentimes
healers or midwives, and in

972
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,800
several instances, widows.
The charge of witchcraft was

973
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:16,880
often used to settle property
disputes or as a tool to

974
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,200
administer vengeance to an
outspoken person.

975
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:27,000
Well, that sucks.
OK, well, sorry for that

976
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:28,920
depressing little rabbit hole
there.

977
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:30,640
Let's jump back to Ed in the
rain.

978
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:35,320
OK, so it's 1974, right?
Like the same year that they

979
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,240
performed the seance for the
parents and then they get kicked

980
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,800
out.
And so that same year, 1974,

981
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,280
they just so happened to
investigate another house and

982
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:52,440
claim that that house also has
an evil spirit witch lady

983
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,520
haunting it.
Just like the Arnold slash

984
01:07:55,600 --> 01:08:01,200
Perrin family estate, except
that this witch is famous

985
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,880
because if you haven't heard of
her, I'm shocked if you haven't

986
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,680
heard of Goody Bassett, but
she's definitely famous in New

987
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:09,800
England.
Which can we pause?

988
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,400
What is New England?
I had to look this up because I

989
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,200
realized, you know, I don't
really know what this means.

990
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,399
It's not a state.
I mean, I I assumed that it was

991
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,600
a section of the country that
was in the Northeast, but I

992
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,800
didn't quite fully understand
like what does that entail?

993
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:33,399
So it basically, if you were an
English settler and you came

994
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:37,960
over and you set foot there kind
of before 1776, that's New

995
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:42,040
England, OK in a nutshell.
So if you were British and your

996
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,600
little British feet touched the
ground shortly after arriving

997
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,560
here, that's New England, OK?
I think that's probably an

998
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,359
oversimplified explanation, so
please don't come for me.

999
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,479
Anyway, it sounds like to me
that the Warrens took Goody

1000
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:59,319
Bassett from their research at
the Phelps house.

1001
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:04,680
Which didn't have anything to do
whatsoever with Goody Bassett.

1002
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,120
So they took the idea of using
Goody Bassett and they had

1003
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:09,680
witches on the mind and then
they.

1004
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,920
Mashed her together with the
local Burlville legends for the

1005
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,560
Arnold estate and then created
their own original character

1006
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,800
that suited their needs.
And as a bonus, Bathsheba has a

1007
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,800
super cool witchy sounding name.
So I mean, you know, you on the

1008
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,640
one hand, you can't blame them.
Because that does that is a

1009
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,240
good.
Story and it's very scary.

1010
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,680
On the other hand, yes, I can
blame them because Bathsheba was

1011
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,000
an innocent woman just like
Goody Bassett.

1012
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:40,640
However, Bathsheba doesn't have
the honor of being exonerated.

1013
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:44,399
So let's just let's just talk
about that right now actually,

1014
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:48,319
because she probably never will
be exonerated or fully cleared

1015
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,040
because of The Conjuring
franchise.

1016
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:56,800
In fact, poor Bathsheba's
gravestone has been vandalized

1017
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:00,800
enough times since the release
of The Conjuring by people who

1018
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,800
believed that the movie really
is based on a true story and

1019
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,560
really believed that Bathsheba
really was a Satan loving

1020
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,520
villain.
And so these people, their

1021
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,960
solution is to piss off her
ghost.

1022
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,360
How is that a good idea?
Like, of all the graves to

1023
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:20,440
vandalize?
Like, don't vandalize anybody's

1024
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:22,120
grave.
But if you're going to vandalize

1025
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,760
your grave, you're going to pick
a murderous, Satan worshipping

1026
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,480
witch.
Make it make sense.

1027
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:32,040
You know, obviously.
In all seriousness, though,

1028
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:34,040
Bathsheba was clearly none of
those things.

1029
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,600
She was just an innocent woman
who lost three of her four

1030
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,840
children.
She lost her husband, and she

1031
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,000
died at the age of 72 from a
stroke.

1032
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:46,880
Rest in peace, Bathsheba.
And Speaking of resting in

1033
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:51,040
peace, because I did mention
right that the headstone, her

1034
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,800
headstone, has been vandalized
enough times that it was

1035
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:58,120
actually broken into pieces and
had to be removed because people

1036
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,080
just kept breaking it every time
they fixed it.

1037
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,440
So Jamie Rubio, the historical
investigative journalist

1038
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:08,680
mentioned earlier, actually
organized a GoFundMe to raise

1039
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:12,200
the funds to get Bathsheba a new
headstone when it was so badly

1040
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,800
damaged.
So she reached her goal in 2023.

1041
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,040
Yay.
And the new headstone was

1042
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:23,560
installed in late 2024, honoring
Bathsheba properly, as it should

1043
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,640
be.
So good job, Jamie.

1044
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,560
What a great thing to do.
If you're wondering, the biggest

1045
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:32,280
donation to the GoFundMe was
made by the new owner.

1046
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:36,200
Well, new Yes by the new owner.
I'm trying to get my timeline

1047
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,040
straight.
Yes was made by the new, newest

1048
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:44,000
owner of the old Arnold
Farmhouse, Jacqueline Nunez.

1049
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,880
And if you're wondering who made
the smallest donation to

1050
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,120
honoring the memory of an
unfairly maligned innocent

1051
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:56,200
woman, that honor is a tie
between Andrea Perrin.

1052
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:03,040
And Tony Spera of Tony spera.com
and not nesper.com, the Warrens

1053
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,360
son-in-law who continues to run
their psychic research Society,

1054
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,200
whose website claims.
Bathsheba is a satanist witch

1055
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:13,680
still to this day.
Andrea Perrin and Tony Spera

1056
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:21,320
both donated $0.00 zero.
When Jamie told me that over

1057
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,120
e-mail, my jaw.
Dropped.

1058
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,360
Like I don't even know why I'm
surprised, but I am.

1059
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:32,960
That two of the people, I mean
Tony Spear is he's implicated.

1060
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:36,680
OK, but Ed and Lorraine Warren
were super implicated.

1061
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,880
And again, the Nesper site still
to this day says that Bathsheba

1062
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,240
was a witch.
And Andrea Perrin who speaks

1063
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,160
badly of Bathsheba as well,
although you can find places

1064
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,680
online where she has said, oh,
never mind.

1065
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,920
Bathsheba's innocent.
I support her but not enough to

1066
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,920
like edit her.
Books that mention anyway those

1067
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:03,080
two people $0.00 to the GoFundMe
you can do $5 you caused this

1068
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:10,000
like y'all come on that's just
I'm riled is another is again

1069
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,680
the right word riled.
So hopefully people stop

1070
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,600
vandalizing Bathsheba's grave,
although I don't know how we'll

1071
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,600
get that to stop.
I don't know, maybe.

1072
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:22,760
What do we do?
Do we install a glitter cannon

1073
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,920
or like a tar and feather
situation, or like you slather

1074
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:33,320
the grave with Vaseline and
again, glitter?

1075
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,320
You know, there's, there's got
to be something there.

1076
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,360
There has to be something there.
We need justice for Bathsheba.

1077
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:46,080
Moving on to The Conjuring
movie, The Conjuring film the

1078
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:51,000
first film, was released in 2013
and spawned another 7 movies to

1079
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,400
date.
As of this recording though, the

1080
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:57,440
next conjuring universe title
comes out in September 2025 S

1081
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:00,640
Keep an eye out.
The Conjuring is the highest

1082
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:07,080
grossing horror franchise in
history, and it all started with

1083
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:10,760
the parents.
Again, Andrea Perrin's book

1084
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:15,440
series had nothing to do with
The Conjuring movie being made.

1085
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:21,120
Actually, in the early 1990s,
producer Tony Derosa Grund met

1086
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:25,280
the Warrens through a mutual
friend of theirs, the writer of

1087
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:30,280
a made for TV movie based on yet
another of the Warrens Case

1088
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:33,720
files, The Smerl Family
Haunting, which is actually what

1089
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,240
the next Conjuring film is
about.

1090
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:40,440
The Conjuring Colon last writes
like RITES anyway.

1091
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,920
Shocker.
Here's the description for that

1092
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:47,840
made for TV movie Husband and
wife parapsychologists help a

1093
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,840
Pennsylvania couple fight demons
in their house.

1094
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,680
I I don't know what I expected.
Now, knowing that the Warrens

1095
01:14:55,680 --> 01:15:01,200
had just had a made for TV movie
made about them, all about them.

1096
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,560
What do you think Ed pitched to
his producer friend?

1097
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:09,040
Yeah, another movie about
another case file.

1098
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:15,740
According to Derosa Grund via
Collider, Ed had a quote UN

1099
01:15:15,740 --> 01:15:19,240
quote laser beam focus on
selling the Perrin family's

1100
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,720
experiences to him to be made
into a movie.

1101
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,160
He even played the original
tapes and interview with Carolyn

1102
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:28,960
Perrin for him.
And Ed said to the producer

1103
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:34,280
quote, if we can't make this
into a film, I don't know what

1104
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:36,840
we can.
But remember everyone, the

1105
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:42,280
Warrens were so kind and pious
and and self sacrificing and

1106
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:46,160
they never asked for any money
from from their victims.

1107
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:50,560
I mean from their clients.
But they did ask for a lot of

1108
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:55,960
money in a lot of other ways.
Moving on, 2009, when De Rosa

1109
01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:00,040
Grund, the producer, brought in
Chad and Carrie Hayes, the

1110
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,520
identical twin writer duo for
The Conjuring to redo the

1111
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:07,600
script, they chose to focus more
on Ed and Lorraine Warren rather

1112
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,120
than the parent family, which
obviously it was a good choice.

1113
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:16,680
Fun fact Chad and Carrie Hayes,
the writers also starred in

1114
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,960
Doublemint gum commercials in
their childhood, and they also

1115
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,720
wrote a movie called Horse
Sense.

1116
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:28,520
Whatever that is.
Oh, OK, It's a Disney Channel

1117
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:30,520
movie.
So the writers of the most

1118
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:34,720
successful horror franchise in
movie history are horse girls.

1119
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:35,520
Got it.
OK.

1120
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:40,400
So these two horse girls made a
really good call focusing on the

1121
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,280
Warrens.
I'll give them that, you know I

1122
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:43,320
will.
I'll give it to them.

1123
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,960
From there, New Line Cinema
purchased the Warrens life

1124
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:50,640
rights from Lorraine since Ed
had already passed away a few

1125
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:56,680
years prior in 2006.
Lorraine honestly really could

1126
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,200
have negotiated better.
You know Ed would never have

1127
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:05,200
stood for the paltry sum that
New Line Cinema bought their

1128
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,680
rights for.
Because New Line Cinema walked

1129
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:13,680
away with Ed and Lorraine
Warren's life rights for movies

1130
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:18,080
for the low, low price of only
$150,000.

1131
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:25,520
That is nothing compared to the
2.2 billion with AB dollars the

1132
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,560
film franchise has earned, and
they're not even done.

1133
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:37,080
Reminder, Lorraine is a
clairvoyant, so you'd think that

1134
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:40,280
she might have been able to see
that one coming.

1135
01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:44,440
But I'll be here all week,
folks.

1136
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:50,080
So Hollywood in general can feel
kind of slimy, but this next bit

1137
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,400
feels extra slimy.
So the Hayes brothers remember

1138
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,920
they were in the Doublemint
commercials and their horse

1139
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,840
girls.
The Hayes brothers are quoted as

1140
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,680
hoping that The Conjuring movies
will be like The Passion of the

1141
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:06,760
Christ, where churches will
stuff all their congregants into

1142
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,440
buses and bus them to the
theater for their yearly

1143
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:14,440
screening of The Conjuring.
So far as I can tell, that is

1144
01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:19,120
not how that worked out.
But you know, if you are aware

1145
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:25,240
of a church that does, do you
know at at a minimum by yearly

1146
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,120
viewings, If you are aware of a
church that does viewings of The

1147
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:30,520
Conjuring and treats it like the
passion of the Christ, let me

1148
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:32,440
know.
Leave a Spotify comment or

1149
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:34,680
e-mail me at
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

1150
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,160
I am really curious, but so far
as I can tell, that's not how

1151
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:42,320
that worked out.
But what I will say is the Hayes

1152
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:44,360
brothers know exactly what
they're doing.

1153
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:48,040
I mean, they very purposefully
refer to their movies not as

1154
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:51,480
horror films, but they market
them as quote UN quote,

1155
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,120
religious supernatural films.
And apparently they even coined

1156
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:58,720
the term.
They see churches and religious

1157
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:02,960
communities as built in
audiences, to the point that The

1158
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,960
Conjuring actually partnered
with a marketing agency that

1159
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:11,200
specializes in Christian
audiences run by an evangelical

1160
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,160
Christian.
The Hayes brothers based the

1161
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:16,960
film's story on the
aforementioned recordings of Ed

1162
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,640
and Carolyn Perrin, which they
listened to.

1163
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:23,080
From over the phone.
I think is what I read.

1164
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,520
But they also had direct access
to Lorraine Warren as well

1165
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,880
because she was still alive when
this movie was being written and

1166
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,680
when it was being filmed.
So the Hayes brothers would chat

1167
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,360
on the phone with Lorraine.
And I am totally picturing all

1168
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,080
three of them laying on their
beds on their stomachs with

1169
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,760
their hair and little like
rollers and they're kicking

1170
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,320
their feet in the air and
twirling the phone cord around

1171
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:49,080
their finger.
And they're just chatting about

1172
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:54,760
demons and exorcisms and the
power of Christ compels you.

1173
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,840
Lorraine, though, was also
brought onto the set as a

1174
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:01,040
consultant alongside Andrea
Perrin.

1175
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:05,280
But again, reminder for the 50
millionth time, Andrea Perrin's

1176
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:09,040
books did not inform The
Conjuring movie, but Lorraine

1177
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:14,080
Warren definitely did.
And here's just a little fun

1178
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:17,040
little Easter egg.
If you go back and watch The

1179
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:19,400
Conjuring, keep an eye on the
audience in the scene where

1180
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,520
Carolyn attends one of the
Warren's talks because Lorraine

1181
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:28,200
Warren has a cameo there and I
promise you, you can't miss her.

1182
01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:31,480
Even if you have no idea what
Lorraine Warren actually really

1183
01:20:31,480 --> 01:20:33,920
looked like, you're going to
spot her right away.

1184
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:37,680
There she is.
She's a very memorable gal.

1185
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:42,680
So what about the house itself?
The old Richardson Arnold Estate

1186
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:49,560
AKA the Arnold Farmhouse AKA the
Perrin Home AKA The Conjuring

1187
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:57,840
House at 1677 Round Top Rd. was
a is a three bedroom, 1 1/2

1188
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:04,720
bath, 3109 square foot house but
has 14 rooms.

1189
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:11,280
So what are all those rooms?
I thought that it would OK

1190
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,840
because 14 rooms you'll also.
Here's something that you'll

1191
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:18,200
find a lot in research or if
you're listening to, but they're

1192
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:22,000
podcasts, talk about this topic.
You will hear people say that it

1193
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:25,680
is a 14 bedroom house.
That is not true.

1194
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:29,360
There are 14 rooms in the house,
but I don't.

1195
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:31,320
Know what all those extra rooms
are?

1196
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:35,640
Because you've got 3 bedrooms, 1
1/2 baths, so that's 4 1/2

1197
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,320
rooms.
Then you've got OK, so 4 1/2

1198
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,320
rooms.
You've got the kitchen and what

1199
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,120
other rooms are there in a
house?

1200
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,080
You have two bedrooms, the
bathrooms, the kitchen, that's

1201
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:46,120
it.
That's all the rooms.

1202
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:47,800
So I don't know what the heck
the other rooms are.

1203
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:52,840
Closets aren't rooms.
So like, say they have like a

1204
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,280
study, right?
That's one room.

1205
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:57,760
Now we're at 7:00 rooms.
How the heck?

1206
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,440
Wow, what?
14 rooms.

1207
01:22:00,440 --> 01:22:03,520
What are the other rooms for?
Are they for all their sun

1208
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,880
kissed oranges?
Are they for what?

1209
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:13,440
So Zillow and Redfin list the
houses being built in 1863

1210
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:16,960
during the Civil War, but
Carolyn Perrin mentions in her

1211
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,800
interview with Ed Warren that it
was built back in the 1700s,

1212
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:24,360
specifically, I think 1763.
I might be flipping those

1213
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:26,880
numbers anyway.
That's well before King George

1214
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,560
the Third told America you'll be
back.

1215
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:35,840
So the owners who owned the
house from 1987 to 2019, Norma,

1216
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:41,120
Sutcliffe and Gerald.
Helfrich, Helfrich, Helfrich,

1217
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:44,640
you know it's fine.
They, Norma and Gerald.

1218
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:50,240
They reported no supernatural or
spiritual experiences in the

1219
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:53,680
allegedly demon infested home
the entire time they lived

1220
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:57,520
there.
In 2013, when The Conjuring was

1221
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:01,560
released, their home, however,
began to get a lot of negative

1222
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:09,040
attention, but not from spirits
or demons or witches, but from

1223
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:13,160
people being assholes.
Just like Beth Sheba's

1224
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:18,240
gravestone, I wonder what the
crossover is there, if there's a

1225
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:22,720
Venn diagram of people who
vandalized Beth Sheba's

1226
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:26,560
headstone versus people that
harassed the poor family that

1227
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:31,520
was living at that house.
So Norma and Gerald sued the

1228
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,000
director James Wan, Warner
Brothers and other producers in

1229
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,760
2015 on the grounds that their
home was being vandalized

1230
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,600
constantly as a consequence of
the film.

1231
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:46,200
In 2019, they finally had enough
and they sold the house to, of

1232
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:50,280
all things, a married paranormal
investigator couple.

1233
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:56,840
Corey and Jennifer Heinzen, who
bought the house for $439,000,

1234
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:01,000
of course claimed that they
immediately started experiencing

1235
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:06,720
supernatural happenings and
coincidentally also opened the

1236
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:09,280
house up to fellow paranormal
investigators.

1237
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:14,600
Like a creepy bed and breakfast.
You know, just, you just have to

1238
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,640
ask yourself, why did Norma and
Gerald not have any weird

1239
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:22,000
experiences?
And then as soon as you have,

1240
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,720
you know, you could argue, oh,
well, they're paranormal

1241
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:31,840
investigators and they're like
more in tune with the spirit

1242
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,280
realm.
And the veil is thinner around

1243
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:37,880
people who OK, sure, OK, you
can.

1244
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,560
But also they opened it up as a
bed and breakfast.

1245
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,680
So I just you, you got to
wonder.

1246
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,600
You got to ask yourself.
You got to so you got to always

1247
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,240
follow the money, right?
Who's making what money, where

1248
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:57,000
and how and off of who's back.
So Fast forward 2022, they

1249
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:59,200
flipped that bad boy, they
flipped that house.

1250
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,840
So, you know, we were just we
were just saying just seconds

1251
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:08,080
ago, follow the money 2022 that
paranormal investigator couple

1252
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:13,840
flipped the house and.
Sold it for $1.5 million to

1253
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:18,800
Jacqueline Nunez who is the one
that donated like something like

1254
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:22,240
$2000 to the headstone
replacement for Bathsheba.

1255
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,360
So they bought the house.
This is crazy.

1256
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,200
They bought that house for
$439,000.

1257
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:33,800
They sold it for $1.5 million.
Crazy.

1258
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,120
So it was purchased, bought from
them.

1259
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:41,080
It was purchased from them with
the insane stipulation that

1260
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:45,040
whoever owns the house cannot
live in it year round because

1261
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:50,160
the energy is so powerful
according to Nunez, the new

1262
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:53,840
owner of the house.
And I know that the Heinzen's

1263
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,960
wanted the new owner to continue
the legacy of keeping it open to

1264
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:01,400
the public.
And yet on the Google listing

1265
01:26:01,480 --> 01:26:06,080
for The Conjuring House, it
says, and I quote, The Conjuring

1266
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:09,080
House is not taking new bookings
at this time.

1267
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:13,520
This is a private property.
Do not trespass.

1268
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:18,160
As for the Perrin family,
Carolyn Perrin and Rodger Perrin

1269
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:22,960
have since passed away.
One of the Perrin children has

1270
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:27,200
also passed and that was April,
the youngest of the Perrin

1271
01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:29,400
daughters.
Unfortunately, she passed away

1272
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,640
in 2017.
However, the remaining four of

1273
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:34,520
the parent daughters are still
alive.

1274
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:39,160
And of course, that includes
their spokesperson, Andrea

1275
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:41,320
Perrin.
She's still around.

1276
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:46,160
O Let's recap the original
Conjuring story, which is the

1277
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:50,520
parent family haunting.
It became a movie because Ed

1278
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:54,440
wanted to pitch it as a movie
because he wanted another movie

1279
01:26:54,440 --> 01:26:57,040
made about him.
Of course he had passed away by

1280
01:26:57,040 --> 01:26:59,760
the time the movie came out, but
he really started this back in

1281
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,120
the 90s.
He said let's get a movie made

1282
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,920
about the parents.
The parents don't need to be

1283
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,600
involved, only us.
They sold their life rights.

1284
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:15,880
There is a whole a whole nother
episode worth of content about

1285
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:17,960
the story regarding their life
rights.

1286
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:20,360
OK, I'm not getting into it
right now.

1287
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:26,000
I will when I do an actual
episode about specifically only

1288
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,680
Ed and Lorraine, but in the
meantime I'm just doing their

1289
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:31,600
case files.
But I will leave you with this

1290
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:37,280
one disconcerting little
disgusting nugget for you to

1291
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,440
think about for that future
episode.

1292
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:45,040
The stipulation that Lorraine
specifically had written into

1293
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:50,920
her contract for The Conjuring
film franchise is strange and

1294
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,080
abnormal.
People ask for specific things

1295
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:55,480
to be put in contracts all the
time.

1296
01:27:55,480 --> 01:28:01,280
That's not that big of a deal.
What's not normal is for them to

1297
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:07,920
specify that the films were not
allowed to show neither Lorraine

1298
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:14,160
nor her husband Ed engaging in
any crimes, including sex with

1299
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:19,680
minors, child pornography,
prostitution or sexual.

1300
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,800
Assault.
Neither the husband nor wife

1301
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:27,200
could be depicted as
participating in an extramarital

1302
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:32,440
sexual relationship.
And I'll just leave you, the

1303
01:28:32,440 --> 01:28:38,400
listener, to wonder why she
might be so specific with some

1304
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:40,840
of those requests in the
contract.

1305
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:44,480
And this also might have
something to do with why you

1306
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:49,240
will never see in The Conjuring
franchise anything other than

1307
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:55,200
the most pious and absolutely
St. like depictions of Ed and

1308
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:59,560
Lorraine Warren.
On the perhaps off chance that

1309
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:04,880
you want to hear a single word
more about The Conjuring, I

1310
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:07,960
actually have quite a bit more
content that did not make it

1311
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:11,760
into this episode, because
otherwise this episode would be

1312
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:16,160
5000 years long.
So in order to avoid that, I

1313
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:20,880
will have extra bonus content
about The Conjuring available on

1314
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:23,080
my Patreon.
You can reach that at

1315
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:26,400
patreon.com/madam.
Strange Ways.

1316
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:30,480
Be sure to join me in 2 weeks
when I will go back to reading

1317
01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:35,040
the true scary stories that are
submitted by listeners just like

1318
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,800
you and of course my commentary
after each story.

1319
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,800
So if you have a true scary
story that you want to share for

1320
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:47,480
the show, go ahead and e-mail me
madamstrangeways@gmail.com or

1321
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:53,000
madamstrangeways.com.
Not Madam Strangeways dot Calvin

1322
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:59,240
Klein, though, and also not
madamstrangeways.horsejust.com.

1323
01:29:59,920 --> 01:30:13,090
For now,
thank you so much for listening

1324
01:30:13,090 --> 01:30:17,170
to these spooky stories.
Remember that you can feel

1325
01:30:17,170 --> 01:30:22,520
afraid and not be in danger.
So if you have a true strange

1326
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:26,200
story that you'd like to hear
read on the show, go ahead and

1327
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:30,560
send it to me, Madam
strangeways@gmail.com or Madam

1328
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,280
strangeways.com.
And since word of mouth is so

1329
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:39,160
important for podcasts, if you
could, to me just one little

1330
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:43,160
weird, spooky, strange, solid,
that would be amazing.

1331
01:30:43,440 --> 01:30:46,680
And that would be telling your
friends about the show.

1332
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:50,920
I'd really appreciate it.
Madame Strangeways is produced

1333
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:55,680
and narrated by me.
Madame Strangeways theme music

1334
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:59,600
is by
marina.ryan@marinamakes.co.

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All stories are read with the
explicit permission from their

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original authors.
Thank you so much for listening.

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See you next time.
Go

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ahead, check out Pat Pet Poop
Pet.

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Why is that so hard?
Oh my God, patreon.com.

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What was it?
Did I say poo?