Three Women in Black | Greek Witches | True Paranormal Stories | Ep #44

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But she's also the goddess of
crossroads, night, light, magic,

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drugs, the moon, AKA the most
badass goddess.

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Welcome stranger, to Madam
Strange Ways, where I, Madam

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Strange Ways, narrate your true
strange stories of the

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unexplained.
But stick around after the story

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where I share my strange
thoughts and observations for

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believers and skeptics alike,
and I will drag you down a slew

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of strange rabbit holes along
the way, kicking and screaming

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if needs must.
But before we get to today's

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true strange story, the
strangest of shout outs to my

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Patreon patrons TJ Hotter of the
Tapes of Trepidation podcast, G

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Man Music, Ted, Keith and Tori,
thank you so much to my Feral

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Fiendish 5 for supporting the
show.

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the beginning of every episode?

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Maybe you'd fancy a free sticker
or some bonus content?

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Join the Patreon today at
patreon.com/madam.

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Strange.
Ways.

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Oh, did you hear that?
I think it's about to rain

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hellcats and hell hounds
outside, so you know what that

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means.
On to our true strange story

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here on Madam Strange Ways.
Three Women in Black by Good

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Composer, 8409.
I grew up in a Greek village

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where there are a lot of old
stories about certain women.

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I don't even know what to call
them in English.

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In the local folklore, they're
women who wear black and can

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harm people, take someone's
eyesight, steal their voice,

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even push them off cliffs.
A local man said that they

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caused him to have a heart
attack and they later found him

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under an olive tree dead.
As a kid, these stories always

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sounded like fairy tales until
something happened to me.

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I was about 13 and my sister was
14.

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It was summer and we were out
late with our parents.

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Around 3:00 AM we decided to
head home by ourselves and

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instead of taking the Main
Street, we took a short side Rd.

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that passed by our grandmother's
house.

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In Greek villages during summer,
women often sit outside in the

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afternoons and evenings
chatting, and some bring small

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chairs that they leave in place
so they don't have to carry them

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back and forth every day, so we
were used to seeing chairs

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outside.
As we came around the corner and

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approached our Graham's house,
we saw three women dressed

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entirely in black, wearing
kerchiefs, sitting in those

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small chairs right outside our
grandmother's home.

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They were completely still.
Not talking, not moving, just

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sitting there like they were
waiting for something.

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At that hour, it was impossible
for them to be our neighbors.

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The moment we saw them, we both
had the same gut feeling.

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This isn't right.
We didn't approach them, we just

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turned around and went back to
the Main St. as quickly as we

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could.
Even now I get chills thinking

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about it.
We knew deep down that those

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weren't just normal women
sitting there.

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The next day we mentioned this
to our grandmother and she

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believed us and told us 20 years
before, maybe more, she had seen

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three women wearing black coming
out of the summer cinema walking

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up a road while she was in the
balcony late at night checking

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if her husband was coming home.
She immediately went inside,

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locked the door and put some
incense to burn.

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Good composer 30 Nope, 84 O 9.
Good composer 84 O 9.

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Thank you so much for allowing
me to read your story on the

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show.
I so appreciate you.

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As soon as I read this story, I
was so excited to ask for

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permission to read it because
not only is it about, let's say,

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which adjacent people, but also
it's Greek.

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Which adjacent?
Are you kidding me?

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I was so excited I immediately
sent the DM like fingers

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crossed, please, please, please.
Because if you don't know,

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hello, welcome, hello.
Whether or not you are new or a

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regular listener, welcome, So
happy to have you.

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But if you don't know, a little
peek behind the curtain.

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I message or DM every single
person whose story that I find

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on Reddit that I want to read on
the story or whose story I want

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to read on the episode.
I should say, and I would say a

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good 30% just never respond.
Probably.

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That's probably being
conservative.

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Maybe half don't respond at.
All.

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So I was so excited when good
composer responded to me and

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said yes, absolutely you can
read my story.

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Yay that made my day.
So thank you so much for

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permission to read it.
This is just so interesting

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because when you look at when
you look at the story on its

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face, it doesn't, you know, it
doesn't sound that scary.

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Oh, you saw three ladies sitting
in chairs that are for sitting.

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But it's not just that you have
to understand the background

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and, and the culture that you've
been raised in and what you've

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been told as a, as a kid growing
up.

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And you know, you have to factor
all that into it.

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And of course, I will always
say, regardless of any of that

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stuff is if something that would
be normal in the daytime is

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happening at night, it's
automatically scary.

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It's automatically scary door
knocking, someone knocking on

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your door or ringing your
doorbell at 3:00 AM, terrifying.

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Who's out there?
Get out, go shoot.

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What are you doing out there?
You know what I mean?

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If someone was out on their
front lawn, like watering the

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grass at 3:00 AM, that would be
weird.

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So I can completely understand
why seeing three women dressed

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in black, who you would perceive
to be something.

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Close to a witch that can give
people heart attacks.

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Yeah, I.
Don't want.

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No, it's good.
Why don't you guys go inside?

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You don't need to be out here,
you know, I know we're out here,

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but you don't need to be out
there.

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It's kind of like when you're
driving around on a work day,

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during the nine to five hours,
you're driving around and you're

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like, why are all these people
here?

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Why aren't they at work?
But you're also there, so why

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aren't you at work?
I guess it's kind of like that,

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but so scary.
And not because anything in

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particularly paranormal had to
happen, you know, but very,

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very, very spooky.
On the other hand, was it just

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three goth girls?
I basically wear all black all

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year long, so maybe I've scared
somebody.

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Although there's not 3 of me
that would scare me if there

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were three of me.
No, thank you.

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But wait, going back to the goth
ladies, because like, if it's

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just three goth girls and
they're wearing like really

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painful heels or those like
really cool stompy boots, I

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mean, their feet hurt.
They need to sit down.

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I mean, maybe there was a Stevie
Nicks sort of concert in the

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area.
Have we ever thought of that?

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Or perhaps techies from a
theater show?

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From a play?
So there's my attempt at a

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mundane or naturalistic
explanation for why these three

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women were sitting there in
chairs outside of Good

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Composer's grandma's house.
But we are far from done.

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If you cannot tell already from
where we are on the status bar

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of your podcast player, we are
far from done.

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But also, before I get started,
if you are interested in the

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history and all the cultural
ramifications and etcetera of

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witches in general, I highly
recommend the podcast series

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called Witches.
It's by BBC Four or BBC Sounds,

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however they market themselves
in the US.

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Very, very, very, very
interesting.

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I cannot recommend it enough,
but here we go.

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We're going to jump back to the
three women that good composer

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encountered.
What good composer described

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these women as capable of, of
doing being, you know, giving

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against giving someone a heart
attack or causing blindness or,

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you know, etcetera.
Honestly, I it would it would be

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remiss of me to not immediately
jump in to discuss the evil eye.

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So the evil eye, especially in
Greek culture, is a supernatural

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belief in a curse brought about
by a malevolent glare, usually

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inspired by envy, but not
always.

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I'll get to that in just a
second.

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Amulets to protect against the
evil eye have been found dating

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back to around 5000 years ago.
That is a very.

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Long time ago.
I think that's like back when

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the first Great Pyramids were.
Being built.

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Let's check.
OK, Google.

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When were the first pyramids
built in Egypt?

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According to Smithsonian
Institution, around 2780 BCE.

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King Joser's architect.
OK, OK.

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We don't need all that.
We don't need all that.

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We just need the year.
What did she say?

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I wasn't listening. 27
something.

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That's 2780.
Come on.

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That's pretty close to, you
know, about 3000 BC that's

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pretty close.
Pretty good, pretty good.

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All right, So that's a very long
time for us to be using evil eye

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ambulance.
I mean, even to this day, as

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recently as 2018 at least
according to

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keeptalkinggreece.com, 60% of
modern Greeks believe that

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prayers against the evil eye
cure headaches.

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So not just prayers, but also
another procedure that simply

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casts the evil eye away is just
salt.

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You just throw a handful of salt
into a glass of water, stir it

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well while saying the prayer,
and in the end you say the magic

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phrase, let the evil eye
dissolve as salt dissolves in

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the water.
Then you don't drink it, you

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actually just throw it in the
toilet and then you have to wash

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the glass really well or there's
something to do with olive oil

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and water and you drop it in and
you know, I don't know how it

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works.
I'm not, I'm not an evil eye

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expert.
Clearly a triple E Obviously

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that's not me.
However, the evil eye is not

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always necessarily given by
someone wishing you ill.

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It doesn't always have malicious
intent.

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In fact, the evil eye can even
stem from admiration like envy.

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Or if you yourself are not
humble, you can cast the evil

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eye on yourself.
Dun Dun Dun.

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The cull was coming from inside
the house.

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But seriously, if if this sounds
kind of magicky, that I mean,

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that's 'cause it is.
But the thing about this magic

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is that it's condoned by not
only the Greek Orthodox Church,

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but also socially condoned.
Because it's not which magic,

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Because which magic is bad.
Witches are bad.

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Everyone knows that.
I mean, I don't think they're

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bad, but a lot of people do.
And throughout history,

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famously, they haven't had like
the best time or the best

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reputation.
So that's why I wanted to use

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this story as an excuse
blatantly, I admit, fully, I

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wanted to use the story as an
excuse to talk about witches and

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witchcraft, and especially to
talk about those things through

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the Greek lens, which I had
never really researched through

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that angle before.
So I'm very, very excited to get

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into this.
So when we're talking about 3

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witches, oh, we're getting into
it now.

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Buckle up.
Buckle up, you it's safety.

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It's the law, it's rabbit hole
safety because we're going to be

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going down, going down a whole
lot of them.

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So you better, you better buckle
up.

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So here we go.
Right off the bat, you may be

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thinking when you're picturing 3
witches, you may be thinking of

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the three fates in Greek
mythology, which would be really

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thematic.
You might also be picturing the

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three witches and Macbeth, who
by the way, they were called the

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Weird Sisters and not the
Strange Sisters.

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Isn't that interesting?
I think those are my cousins

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twice removed.
But no, the reason they're

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called Weird Sisters and not
Strange Sisters is because back

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in Shakespeare's time, weird
meant something different than

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it does today.
And actually, from what I'm

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reading, it sounds like it
sounds like the Weird Sisters

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actually informed our modern use
of the word weird.

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Anyway, in Shakespeare's time,
weird meant or well, circa 1400,

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weird, the noun is force that
sets events in motion or

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determines their course what is
destined to befall 1.

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So basically determining one's
fate, which comes from the Old

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English weird spelled WYRD,
which is the only way that I

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want to spell that word from now
on.

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Meaning fate, chance, fortune,
destiny, the fates.

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So isn't that interesting?
That's why they were called the

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Weird Sisters.
And of course, 3 is a very

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witchy number.
You've got the rule of three,

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00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,040
which is the belief that your
actions will be returned to you

227
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,360
threefold.
You've also got the cycles of

228
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,520
birth, life, and death.
That's three, 123 baby.

229
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,360
You've got the triple goddess
aspects of mother, maiden Crone.

230
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,960
I think I flipped those Maiden,
mother Crone, which is basically

231
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,640
the cycles of life, but OK.
Then you've also got

232
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,960
Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice, Kettle Juice and

233
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,680
Bloody Mary Bloody Mary, Bloody
Mary I.

234
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,960
Think Candyman is 5.
Times.

235
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,280
So I don't think that he follows
this, but you get it. 3 is

236
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,240
really witchy.
Hence when we're talking about 3

237
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,680
witches, it feels even scarier
than just one witch. 3 witches,

238
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,880
very scary.
And then that brings us back to

239
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,680
the Fates, which you may have
thought of immediately when you

240
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,520
were picturing 3 witches,
especially in Greece.

241
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,720
So in ancient Greek religion and
mythology, the Moirai, often

242
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,240
known in English as the Fates,
were the personifications of

243
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,600
destiny.
Let's hearken back to the Weird

244
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,280
Sisters, right?
Anyway, they were three sisters,

245
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:11,320
Klotho the spinner, Lacus the
Allauder, and Atropos the

246
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,400
inevitable, A metaphor for
death.

247
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,040
So again, it's this triple
triple goddess.

248
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,320
It's this life cycles.
It's anyway, it's so

249
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,600
interesting.
Moving on.

250
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,720
So the faiths themselves are not
necessarily witches, and they're

251
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,040
actually not even goddesses
either, because generally they

252
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,280
were considered to be above even
the gods in their roles as

253
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,800
enforcers of fate, although in
some representations Zeus, the

254
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,840
chief of the gods, is able to
command them.

255
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,160
In other times though, he's not.
However, if we're tying them to

256
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,880
the Weird Sisters, and those are
definitely witches.

257
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,120
But are they though?
Because really they were just

258
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,960
able to to, to see destiny.
They were prophetesses, you

259
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,280
might say, Diviners, others
might say, and I'm getting ahead

260
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,720
of myself a little bit, but just
keep this in mind.

261
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,400
There are multiple words in
Greek that can be translated as

262
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,080
witch, which is probably why
good composer wasn't quite sure

263
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,520
the word to use in English.
But from the four or five words

264
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,400
that I was able to find that
also translate to which I think

265
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,840
the one that is the most
appropriate to use for a diviner

266
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:26,480
or prophetess would be
necromantia, which is the root

267
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,480
word for necromancy.
And it's not what you think.

268
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,480
It's not what I thought anyway
when you're talking about

269
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,160
necromancy in the Greek sense,
especially in the ancient Greek

270
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,720
sense, it's more like the art of
using the dead, using the

271
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,400
spirits of the dead to seek
advice, bringing them back to

272
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,560
life or asking them to send you
a message so that you can see

273
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,960
the future through the spirits
of the dead.

274
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,320
Or it could be the Greek term
mantis, which just means profit

275
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,040
or seer.
So as you can see, witches back

276
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,079
in the day didn't necessarily
all just call get called

277
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,280
witches.
They all had these like specific

278
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,000
little jobs, everyone had a sub
genre if you will.

279
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,319
And it wasn't until later that
we just lumped all of the

280
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,839
different kinds of witchy
professions into one word and

281
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,839
just called them all witches.
And I want to ask the question,

282
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,280
and I want to answer the
question, what even is a witch

283
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,839
anyway?
What is a witch?

284
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,320
But I feel like we can't answer
that question until we answer

285
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:34,520
the question, what's magic?
What?

286
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,720
What's magic?
What is even magic?

287
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,520
How do you define magic?
Well, here we go again.

288
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,160
I told you to buckle up.
Authors William Swatos and Peter

289
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,760
Quivisto, I think I nailed
those, define magic as any

290
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,240
attempt to control the
environment or the self by means

291
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,040
that are either untested or
untestable, such as charms or

292
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,160
spells.
But before we get too deep into

293
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,920
that, we're going to talk about
history and etymology of the

294
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,560
term magic.
So the term magic was pervasive

295
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,920
through the eastern
Mediterranean and western Asia

296
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:15,320
until late antiquity and beyond.
Magos, or magician, was a term

297
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,640
influenced by and eventually
displaced by the Greek term goes

298
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,400
the older word for the
practitioner of magic to include

299
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,600
astrology, alchemy, and other
forms of esoteric knowledge.

300
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,800
This is Wikipedia, clearly.
If that's not, obviously this

301
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,720
association was in turn the
product for the Hellenistic

302
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,400
fascination for pseudo
Zoroaster, who was perceived by

303
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,200
the Greeks to be the Chaldean
founder of the Magi and inventor

304
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,720
of both astrology and magic, a
meaning that still survives in

305
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,520
the modern day word magic and
magician.

306
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,720
Don't worry, we will be talking
about Zoroaster.

307
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,320
Just give me a second.
So if you'll recall from my

308
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,240
Demon in the woods episode, and
if you have not listened to my

309
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,960
Demon in the woods episode, I do
a like a little mini deep dive

310
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,560
into what are demons, What's a
demon in the history of demons?

311
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,160
So go listen to that.
But anyway, if you'll recall

312
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,800
from my Demon in the Woods
episode, the modern Western

313
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:17,640
concept of demons as being bad
or evil, You know, like angels

314
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,480
good, demons evil.
That concept traveled to ancient

315
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,520
Greece and Rome via
Zoroastrianism from Iran because

316
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:28,840
of Alexander.
They're great.

317
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,480
Who was a N Macedonian by the
way.

318
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,280
He didn't want you to remember
that, but let's remember it.

319
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,320
He was Macedonian just like
Cleopatra the 7th, which is the

320
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,400
Cleopatra that anyone remembers
that Cleopatra.

321
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,640
Anyway, she was also N
Macedonian.

322
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,000
Anyway, Alexander the Great, his
empire spanned from Greece all

323
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,280
the way to West India, which is
really far.

324
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,760
So let me just give you a
visual.

325
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,160
You're probably not sitting in
front of a map right now, so let

326
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,080
me be your map.
Let me be your strange map to

327
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,840
give you a visual of where that
where everything is.

328
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,840
Iran in comparison to where
Greek is located.

329
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,240
Moving east from Greece, you've
got Greece, you've got Turkey,

330
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,840
Iran.
So it's really not that far.

331
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,360
I mean, Turkey's really big.
Look, if I had to walk from

332
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,760
Greece to Iran, I would die.
That would not happen.

333
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,960
It's not happening.
But in terms of religion moving

334
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,040
around, yeah, it's actually not
that far for Zoroastrianism to

335
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,200
travel.
But anyway, what I didn't tell

336
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,960
you when the Demon in the Woods
episode is what the Zoroastra

337
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,200
part?
Of Zoroastrianism is because

338
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,960
again I do this does come up in
the demon episode.

339
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,960
This is all tied together and
I'm having a great time so this

340
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,120
is Wikipedia.
Zarathustra Spitama, more

341
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,720
commonly known as Zoroaster, was
an Iranian religious reformer

342
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,000
who challenged the tenets of the
contemporary ancient Iranian

343
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,280
religion, becoming the spiritual
founder of Zoroastrianism.

344
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,280
He also had an impact on Plato,
Pythagoras.

345
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,240
Yep, that one.
And the Abrahamic religions,

346
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,640
including Judaism, Christianity,
and Islam, particularly through

347
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,000
concepts of cosmic dualism and
personal morality.

348
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,920
Cosmic dualism, you know, like
good versus bad, angels versus

349
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,960
demons, etcetera.
He was probably alive around

350
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,240
1000 BC, with some scholars
suggesting a range between 1500

351
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,680
and 500 BC to be possible.
And if you clocked Zarathustra,

352
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,160
yes, Yep.
If you're picturing 2001 a Space

353
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,960
Odyssey, or if you're picturing
Nietzsche, Yep, there you go.

354
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,040
However, the Greeks had a
misunderstanding of Zoroaster as

355
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,520
expressed by Plutarch and
Agathius.

356
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,120
I don't know how to pronounce
that.

357
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:46,880
Guys.
I've had to pause this 500 times

358
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,280
already to double check
pronunciation for names, so

359
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,680
please bear with me, I'm trying
my best.

360
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,720
Again, if you are a Greek and
you are listening to this and I

361
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,600
am not doing a good job, please
have mercy on me.

362
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,400
So OK, moving back.
So the Greeks had a

363
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,680
misunderstanding of Zoroaster.
In the Western world, Zoroaster

364
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,040
has been described as a sorcerer
slash astrologer, the creator of

365
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,120
both magic and astrology, and
deriving from that image and

366
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:20,520
reinforcing it was a mass of
literature attributed to him

367
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,760
that circulated the
Mediterranean world from the

368
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:28,000
third BC to the end of antiquity
and beyond Buzz Light year.

369
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,640
If it's not clear, Zoroaster did
not write all of those books

370
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,920
that were attributed to him.
And so hence the Greeks had an

371
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:45,040
understandable misunderstanding,
an under a misunderstandable

372
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,720
understanding of Zoroaster.
But hold on, Let me pause really

373
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,720
quick.
Let me pause really quick in

374
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,920
Iran for just a second here.
We're just taking a little

375
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,680
little Iranian rabbit hole
detour.

376
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,640
I promise this one comes back
around to witchcraft.

377
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,640
I promise this is not unrelated
because listen, ancient Iran,

378
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,480
historically called Persia, was
the dominant nation of West Asia

379
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,720
for 12 centuries.
That is a very long time.

380
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,040
So if you are looking at the
Avesta, which is the most

381
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,640
ancient scriptures of
Zoroastrianism, science and

382
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,200
medicine rise above class,
ethnicity, nationality, race,

383
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:32,840
gender, and even religion.
And around 5:59 to 3:30 BCE, the

384
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,400
21 books of the Avesta,
encompassing 815 chapters, were

385
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,440
basically an encyclopedia of
science consisting of medicine,

386
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,000
astronomy, law, social science,
philosophy, general knowledge,

387
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,480
logic, and biology.
So the best teachers of medicine

388
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,040
and astrology, and I think when
we say astrology here, we mean

389
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,280
astronomy.
We keep with, we keep saying

390
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,600
astrology because I think it's
just like an ancient term.

391
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,080
We mean astronomy.
We don't mean your sun sign or

392
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,880
your moon sign or your whatever
is in transit sign.

393
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,880
You know, we don't mean that.
We mean astronomy, although

394
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,200
maybe they were really good at
it.

395
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,560
Maybe they were really good at.
Astrology because it's possible

396
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,320
that they were really, really
good at doing.

397
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,160
Placement charts and birth
charts.

398
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,040
It's possible anyway.
So the best teachers of medicine

399
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:27,520
and astronomy were Iranian Magi
and Mobius, which were

400
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,200
Zoroastrian, which were
Zoroastrian priests who passed

401
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,120
their knowledge onto their
pupils from one generation to

402
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,400
the next.
So when the Greeks encountered

403
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760
this advanced understanding of
astronomy and medicine, which

404
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,240
was way beyond their own, well
here let me just read you

405
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,440
something written by KE Edulji
from the Zoroastrian Heritage

406
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,960
Blog.
The combination of traits that

407
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,720
the Greek authors labeled as
magic when it came to Zoroaster,

408
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,480
a term that appears to have been
derived from the remarkable

409
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,640
skills and abilities of the
Zoroastrian priests.

410
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,600
The Magi, while often used in a
disparaging or derogatory sense,

411
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,040
also offer grudging
acknowledgement of the superior

412
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,520
knowledge and skills possessed
by the Magi, so much that the

413
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,280
efficacy of the Magi's work,
notably as doctors and healers,

414
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:26,520
appeared to the Greeks as magic.
You guys clocking this magic?

415
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,720
We can understand that the
skills like this continues.

416
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,200
We can understand that we can
understand that the skills,

417
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,760
especially their medical skills
and knowledge of the natural

418
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,600
sciences of the Zoroastrian
priests.

419
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,520
The Magi through whom these
authors understood

420
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,960
Zoroastrianism were of such a
high level so as to a peer like

421
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,840
magic.
For the more ignorant, many

422
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,600
basic modern science feats would
appear as super magic to the

423
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,440
Greeks.
So all to say, that's where we

424
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,240
get the word magic from.
Magi priest of Zoroastrianism,

425
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,760
yadda yadda yadda.
And they're just so much more

426
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,200
advanced and so it seems
magical.

427
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,800
And also they consider them
sorcerers because of that.

428
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,120
But wait, there's more.
Because of course there is.

429
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,280
There's always more.
During the late 6th and early

430
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,840
5th centuries BC, the Persian
Magus was gricified and

431
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,080
introduced into the Ancient
Greek language as Magos and

432
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:30,120
Magia.
In doing so, it transformed

433
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:34,640
meaning, gaining negative
connotations, with the Magos

434
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,920
being regarded as a charlatan
whose ritual practices were

435
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,600
fraudulent.
Strange.

436
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,600
That's not bad.
That's a good thing.

437
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,000
Strange, unconventional and
dangerous.

438
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,120
For the ancient Greeks and
subsequently for the ancient

439
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:53,520
Romans, magic was not distinct
from religion, but rather an

440
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,000
unwelcome, improper expression
of it, the religion of the

441
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,120
other.
And I feel like that's really

442
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,720
powerful right there, The
religion of the other.

443
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,440
Because you're bringing this
term in from Persia.

444
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,320
Persia being the area around
where Iran is.

445
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,400
So this Zoroastrianism that
comes in, they are actually

446
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,480
translating it and actually then
giving it a negative connotation

447
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:23,160
because it is other from them.
The the historian Richard Gordon

448
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,720
suggested that for the ancient
Greeks, being accused of

449
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,800
practicing magic was a form of
insult.

450
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,320
I don't know about you, but that
kind of sounds like, kind of

451
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,560
sounds like sour grapes to me
because they're just not as

452
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,720
advanced.
You know, there's like just a

453
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,400
little bit, a little bit.
So one example of magic that you

454
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,080
might find in ancient Greece
were amulets.

455
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,960
Amulets were one of the most
common protections or counter

456
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,160
magics used in the Greco Roman
world as protection against such

457
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,920
fearful things as curses and the
aforementioned evil eye, which

458
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,360
were both seen as very real by
most of its inhabitants.

459
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,960
While amulets were made-up of
cheap materials, often precious

460
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,680
stones were believed to have
special efficacy.

461
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,120
I feel like that's twice that
I've said the word efficacy in

462
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,640
an episode which feels like
quite a lot.

463
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,320
Many thousands of carved gems
were found that clearly had a

464
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,840
magical rather than ornamental
function.

465
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,160
Amulets were also made of
organic materials such as

466
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,960
beetles.
And I can't stop thinking about

467
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,560
what does that look like?
What do you mean?

468
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,200
How did they?
They didn't have resin, so how I

469
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,240
have, I'm not going to Google
it, but I do want to know, do

470
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,760
you know, do you own an amulet
made of beetles?

471
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,800
Let me know
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

472
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,240
Amulets were a very widespread
type of magic because of the

473
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,480
fear of other types of magic,
such as curses being used

474
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,040
against oneself.
So another very common form of

475
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,920
magic that the ancient Greeks
used were curse tablets.

476
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,840
So a cursed tablet is a small
tablet with a curse written.

477
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,080
On at dusk.
That's what it says on the tin,

478
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,640
I guess.
This is from Wikipedia.

479
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,400
Its name originated from the
Greek and Latin words for Pierce

480
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,640
and bind.
The tablets were used to ask the

481
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:20,160
gods, place spirits, or the
deceased to perform an action on

482
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,720
a person or object, or otherwise
compel the subject of the curse.

483
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,920
This is really interesting.
Cursed tablets are typically

484
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,400
very thin sheets of lead with
the text scratched on in tiny,

485
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,160
tiny letters.
They were often then rolled

486
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,440
folded lead.
I guess it does say very thin.

487
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,520
Can lead fold?
I guess I don't know how lead

488
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,840
works.
I think I'm discovering this

489
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,760
right now.
How can you fold?

490
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,120
All right, all right, let's
just.

491
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,720
OK, that's fine.
The the sheets of lead were then

492
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,040
somehow rolled, folded or
pierced with nails, and the

493
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,000
tablets were then usually placed
beneath the ground, either

494
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,120
buried in graves or tombs,
thrown into wells or pools,

495
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,960
sequestered in underground
sanctuaries or nailed to the

496
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,320
walls of temples.
Tablets were also used for love

497
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,760
spells, and when used in this
manner, they were placed inside

498
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:17,560
the home of the desired target.
OK, this is crazy because

499
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,880
overwhelmingly the majority of
cursed tablets for love spells

500
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,720
are done by men.
They're done by men.

501
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,760
You were thinking they were done
by women, aren't you?

502
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,720
You were picturing women rolling
up somehow their little lead

503
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,480
sheet tablets and then sneaking
into a man's home.

504
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,160
That's what you were thinking.
Wrong, wrong.

505
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,480
The majority of cursed tablets
for love spells are done by men.

506
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,120
I mean, that just begs the
question, how long has this male

507
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,200
loneliness epidemic been going
on?

508
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,040
Really?
Anyway, now that I, and

509
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,440
hopefully you, have a somewhat
tenuous grasp of the concept of

510
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,280
magic, that brings us to our
next question.

511
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,480
What even is a witch though?
What is a witch?

512
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,200
At its most basic level, a witch
is someone who practices

513
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,560
witchcraft.
Great super.

514
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,080
Helpful.
I know magic and witchcraft

515
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,120
aren't necessarily the same
thing, which is confusing, and

516
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,200
it is still confusing to me, and
I am still trying to work

517
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,160
through this.
But I guess if magic wasn't

518
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,440
confusing, everybody would be
doing, and it would be magic

519
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,480
with it if everyone understood
it and knew how to use it.

520
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,640
So historians and
anthropologists see the concept

521
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400
of witchcraft.
This is Wikipedia again as one

522
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,800
of the ways humans have tried to
explain strange misfortune.

523
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,320
I really like this, and I hate
that I interrupted myself in the

524
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,080
sentence.
Listen again, this is important.

525
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,720
Anthropologists see the concept
of witchcraft as one of the ways

526
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,960
humans have tried to explain
strange misfortune.

527
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,800
This is something I also go into
in my demon episode.

528
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,640
This is, I'm telling you, I
didn't realize how deeply

529
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,200
connected all of this is.
Some cultures have feared

530
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,200
witchcraft much less than others
because they have tended to have

531
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,720
other explanations for strange
misfortune.

532
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,760
Strange again.
Why is it a bad thing?

533
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,240
It's not bad, it's OK.
For example, they could explain

534
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,200
strange misfortune, which is,
say, misfortune, OK.

535
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,960
They could explain misfortune of
being caused by gods or spirits

536
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,400
or demons or fairies or other
humans who have unwittingly cast

537
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,760
the evil eye.
We are back to the evil eye.

538
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,480
So if you look at the gales of
Ireland and the Scottish

539
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,520
Highlands, historically they
held a very strong belief in

540
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,160
fairy folk who could cause
supernatural harm.

541
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,480
And as a result, this is so
interesting, so pay attention.

542
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,800
As a result, witch hunting was
very rare in the Irish and

543
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,840
Scottish regions compared to
other regions in the British

544
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:56,080
Isles because they blamed
supernatural harm and misfortune

545
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,360
on fairy folk, not witches.
Isn't that crazy?

546
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,840
So moving on, in ancient Greece
and the Roman Empire around 8th

547
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:12,200
century BCE, individuals known
as Go eats practiced various

548
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,560
forms of magic, including
divination.

549
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,560
Remember the three the the Weird
Sisters and the Three Fates?

550
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,160
So divination, spell casting and
invoking supernatural entities.

551
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,360
While some forms of magic were
integrated into religious

552
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,160
practices, others were seen as
superstitious and potentially

553
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,920
harmful.
So you remember I said listen,

554
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,160
the evil eye is totally
accepted.

555
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,520
It's totally not scary and weird
and bad.

556
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,800
However, other other forms of
magic are seen as superstitious

557
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,840
and bad, so there are accounts
of people being prosecuted and

558
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,840
punished for witchcraft in the
ancient Greco Roman world before

559
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,800
Christianity.
In ancient Greece for example,

560
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,160
Theoris Theoris, a woman of
Lemnos was prosecuted for and

561
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:04,040
executed along with her family.
Records refer to her as

562
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,040
Pharmacus, A potion specialist,
where we get the word pharmacy

563
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,880
from a mantis like I mentioned
before, so otherwise a diviner

564
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,280
like our three faiths, like our
weird sisters.

565
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,159
And she was also referred to as
a hydia, A priestess.

566
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,800
However, the sentence against
her and her family was for

567
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,159
impiety.
Interesting impiety.

568
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,920
One would think that anything
that has the word pie in it

569
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,639
can't be that bad.
Can't be that bad.

570
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,080
Hey yo, the social perception of
magic practitioners in ancient

571
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,440
Greece was a mixed bag.
While magicians and oracles were

572
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,600
often seen as valuable and
respected members of society,

573
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,760
witches faced a different fate.
Because of course they did.

574
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,639
Of course they did.
Due to their association with

575
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,520
darker forms of magic, witches
were often marginalized and

576
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,440
feared, which is so not cool
because witches are cool.

577
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,920
Come on.
However, it's important to note

578
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,240
that the perception of magical
practitioners varied across

579
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:08,080
different city States and
communities.

580
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,720
While some individuals sought
their help in times of need,

581
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,200
others shunned them due to
superstitious or religious

582
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,600
beliefs.
I do think it's worth mentioning

583
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,480
that the magicians that are
mentioned as often being seen as

584
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:27,120
valuable or men.
They were men and witches,

585
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,560
typically women.
Isn't that, isn't that

586
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,880
interesting?
Oi know, we talked earlier about

587
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,440
like the kinds of different
phrases that there are for

588
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,160
different types of witches and
their specific tyes of powers.

589
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,080
O we'll just kind of share those
with you right now.

590
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,960
So while ancient Greek does not
have a word that directly

591
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:51,480
translates as witch, the Greek
term Goadia basically puts an

592
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,480
umbrella, a little spooky
strange umbrella over diviners,

593
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,520
magicians, healers and seers all
at once.

594
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,240
But again, there's all these
little subtypes you can find.

595
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,600
So pharmacus, you know where we
get pharmacy from, they would

596
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,080
have been healers and they would
have, you know, been otherwise

597
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,880
known as like wise women or like
folk healers.

598
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,600
So, you know, it sounds great,
right?

599
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:16,960
It sounds great.
You you're sick.

600
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,480
You can go to the folk healer.
You can go to this pharmacist.

601
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,280
However, if you can heal, you
can also hurt.

602
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,320
And so that's where some of the
suspicion about these women came

603
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,560
from was.
Well, depending on the dose,

604
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,800
something can either hurt you or
help you.

605
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,880
So some people ended up
referring to them as poisoners

606
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,160
instead of folk healers.
And in fact in Exodus 2218 in

607
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,160
the Bible there is a famous
verse that you may know about

608
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,760
not suffering a witch to live.
And that verse may be referring

609
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,520
specifically to the folk healers
slash poisoners, or it could

610
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,800
also potentially be referring to
priestesses who engaged in

611
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,800
ritual prostitution.
But you know, King James of the

612
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,160
Bible, you know the famous King
James, we did talk about him as

613
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,960
well in the demon episode
because he has, I don't know how

614
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,800
else to say it.
It's kind of got a hard on for

615
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,640
witches and for killing them and
also women.

616
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,000
So that's fun.
What a fun time.

617
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,400
Now on to some famous Greek
witches.

618
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,960
We're going to start with Hecate
now.

619
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,560
Is she a witch or is she a
goddess?

620
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,760
We again come to this question
that we had with the Fates as

621
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,480
well.
Well, of course she is a goddess

622
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,480
and she is the goddess of
witchcraft.

623
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,120
But she's also the goddess of
crossroads, night, light, magic,

624
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,440
drugs, the moon, AKA the most
badass goddess.

625
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,200
Show me a goddess who is a
goddess of that many cool

626
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,160
things.
She's so cool.

627
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,880
So as a Goddess of witchcraft,
Hecate has been incorporated in

628
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,120
various systems of Neo Pagan
Witchcraft, Wicca and Neo

629
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,520
Paganism, in some cases
associated with the Wild Hunt of

630
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,520
Germanic tradition.
Now, does the Wild Hunt sound

631
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,000
familiar to you?
No.

632
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,960
Then you need to go listen to my
Sleepy Hollow episode because we

633
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:23,440
discuss in small detail but
still at all the Wild Hunt.

634
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,080
It's just so strange because I
had never heard of the Wild Hunt

635
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,800
before.
Then I did my research for the

636
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,640
Halloween episode, for the
Sleepy Hollow episode, the Wild

637
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,520
Hunt came up and then in
research of doing this episode,

638
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,920
what should come up again.
But the Wild Hunt, it's

639
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:45,080
basically kind of like a super
cool metal group of ghouls and

640
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,960
and skeletons and I don't know,
it just kind of looks like it's

641
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,640
the cover of a of a heavy metal
album is basically my gist of

642
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,400
what the Wild Hunt is.
All these creatures just flying

643
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,120
in the sky.
Anyway, apparently Hecate is

644
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,440
involved with that in Wicca.
Hekati has been in some cases

645
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,680
become identified with the Crone
aspect of the triple Goddess,

646
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,360
which we kind of talked about
earlier, right?

647
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,720
Are are three how the number 3
is very witchy?

648
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,000
So apparently she's associated
with the Crone, which I think is

649
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,360
really weird because famously in
Greek mythology and Greek

650
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,960
ancient ancient tradition,
witches were hot, which is we're

651
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,280
young and hot.
Versus when you're talking about

652
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,120
Roman, which is in Roman
mythology, witches were Crone

653
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,800
like and ugly and monstrous.
And I feel like there's

654
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,600
something there.
I need to do more research on

655
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,680
this and figure out why.
I think, I know.

656
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,680
I think I have an idea of why
you would identify certain

657
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,640
potentially powerful women as
being ugly monsters, but I would

658
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,160
just be guessing.
So Hecatee was not always a

659
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,680
goddess of witchcraft.
That came later because she was

660
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,360
associated with the spirits of
the dead and the night and the

661
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,840
underworld.
People began to associate her

662
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,800
with witchcraft because
remember, remember the curse

663
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,680
tablets.
Remember those how they would

664
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,560
and also not just the curse
tablets, the.

665
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,240
The diviners who are using the
dead to see the future like the

666
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:21,480
dead.
So because she was associated

667
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,760
with the spirits of the dead and
the night in the underworld,

668
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,680
that then tied her to the
witchcraft that is happening

669
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,400
around the dead and the night
and the underworld and hence she

670
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,800
became a goddess of witchcraft.
Yay.

671
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,360
So some other Greek witches from
mythology include Kirky, which

672
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,040
is spelled Cersei, but not like
Game of Thrones.

673
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,720
It seems like I should be read
Cersei, but apparently it is

674
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:51,040
pronounced Kirky.
Or could be Kirky or Kirky, I'm

675
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,080
not sure it's one of those.
Anyway, she was another witch

676
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,720
from mythology, and she lived
alone on an island far away from

677
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:01,320
any men.
There were only nymphs and

678
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:06,080
animals on her island, and even
then she couldn't avoid a bunch

679
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,600
of men showing up on her island
getting up all in her business.

680
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,200
So she turned them all into
pigs.

681
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,120
Pigs.
And somehow she was the bad guy.

682
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,960
I don't know how she ends up
marrying Odysseus.

683
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,040
Or maybe not marrying, but
becoming Odysseus's lover.

684
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,000
I think she sires a child with
him.

685
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:29,960
Anyway, Medea is another Greek
witch and she actually trained

686
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,760
under Kirky.
Kirky.

687
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,360
She trained under her, which
doesn't.

688
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Cersei sounds cooler.
I'm going to just say I might be

689
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,120
wrong, but Cersei sounds.
Cooler all right, and I want to

690
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,560
wrap up by reading some of this
really interesting article,

691
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,600
essay, I'm not sure, called From
Goddess to Hag, the Greek and

692
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,520
the Roman Witch in Classical
Literature by Barbette Stanley

693
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,760
Spaeth.
Forgive me, so I'm just going to

694
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,520
read a small excerpt from it.
Medea and Cersei.

695
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,160
Medea and Kirky, for example,
are both of divine lineage and

696
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,760
I'm just going to say Cersei,
and Cersei is called a dread

697
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,720
goddess.
Which is so cool.

698
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,880
While Medea is a priestess of
Hecatine, it may be that in the

699
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,080
earliest stages of their mythic
life, these figures were not

700
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,920
thought to be witches.
That is, magical practitioners,

701
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,520
for the concept of magic was not
fully formed until the 5th

702
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,480
century BCE.
That's I should probably put

703
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,760
that earlier in the episode.
That's interesting.

704
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,960
The concept of magic was not
fully formed until the 5th

705
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,560
century BCE.
Ancient witches, in fact, seem

706
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,280
obsessed with the things of the
body.

707
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,080
They are driven largely by
bodily lust.

708
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:51,800
Cersei desires Odysseus for her
bed, Medea lusts for Jason,

709
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:57,120
Samantha craves her delphice,
Folia has a masculine libido

710
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:02,280
quote UN quote, and Moreau and
Fotis are all driven by their

711
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,280
sexual desires, which is lust is
considered so overpowering that

712
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:16,200
it can cause male impotence.
Imagine in Homer, Hermes warns

713
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,680
Odysseus that having sex with
the witch Cersei might make him

714
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,560
weakly and unmannered.
Nope.

715
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,480
Weakly and unmanned.
Hmm.

716
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,080
In Petronius, the woman Cersei
causes inculpius.

717
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,920
Jesus, why did I do this to
myself?

718
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,000
I.
I'm so sorry this has been such

719
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,760
a struggle.
I was so interested in this

720
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,800
topic and then actually reading
all these names aloud is really

721
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,200
difficult.
OK.

722
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:48,040
Cersei causes Enculpius
Enculpius to become impotent.

723
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,520
Interesting, although he tries
to heal his impotence with the

724
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:59,280
help of the witches Procellinose
and Oh no Thea, Oh no that's me

725
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,480
this whole episode.
Their own lust also proves more

726
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,160
than he can handle.
So he gets impotent from a witch

727
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,960
and he goes to other witches.
Like help me with my witch

728
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,800
impotence, my witch Potence if
you will.

729
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,880
The lustful actions of these
witches are a form of inversion

730
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,000
of the natural order, for
according to ancient

731
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,240
conceptions, it was the male who
was supposed to be the active

732
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:27,520
sexual partner in assuming the
active role, which is call into

733
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,200
question the normative sexual
roles of men and women in

734
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,760
classical culture, threatening
the culturally constructed

735
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:41,120
boundaries of male and female.
As for modern witches like 2025

736
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:46,440
witches, there's actually not a
ton that I could find on modern

737
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,040
Greek folkloric magic or
witchcraft, and I think that's

738
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,640
kind of by design.
Maybe if I spoke Greek and I

739
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,000
could read and write Greek,
maybe then I would have an

740
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,400
easier time.
But as an American,

741
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,960
unfortunately, I really couldn't
find much anymore any more

742
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,640
modern than the evil eye stuff
that I shared at the beginning

743
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:11,360
or anything past 1900 when the
book Modern Greek Folklore and

744
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,120
Ancient Greek Religion, A Study
in Survivals was written by John

745
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,160
Cuthbert Lawson.
And I will close this episode on

746
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,960
a little snippet of the
different kinds of magic that

747
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,280
could happen in 1900.
So for this particular spell,

748
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,680
it's a spell of binding and it
would be used, let's just say by

749
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,440
someone who is jealous and does
not want a marriage to be

750
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,640
consummated.
Because then ideally, if the

751
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,040
marriage isn't consummated, then
it can they then they can break

752
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,640
up.
And then whoever is casting the

753
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,120
spell can get together with
whoever it is because now they

754
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,080
haven't been officially married.
OK, so this is a spell of

755
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,280
binding.
Its purpose is to fetter the

756
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,920
virility of the husband and so
to prevent the consummation of

757
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,960
the marriage.
The right itself is simple.

758
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:03,880
Either the jealous girl herself.
OK, I think I think we're making

759
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,400
a big assumption here, John
Cuthbert Lawson because we now

760
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,840
know that it was mostly men that
were doing the love based curse

761
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,480
tablets.
So let's just let's pull that

762
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,880
back in.
I don't know that it's always

763
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,360
going to be a jealous girl
anyway.

764
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:23,280
The jealous person or a witch
employed by this jealous person

765
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,240
attends the wedding.
This, the gall of this, attends

766
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:31,440
the wedding, taking with them a
piece of Oh, this is the witch.

767
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,080
The witch employed by the person
attends the wedding.

768
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,080
The witch takes a piece of
thread or string in which 3

769
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,480
loops have been closely made
during the reading of the gospel

770
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,240
or the pronouncement of the
blessing.

771
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,880
The witch then pulls the ends of
the string, forming thereby 3

772
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,960
knots in the string, and at the
same time mutters the brief

773
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,520
incantation.
I bind blank and blank and the

774
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,800
devil betwixt them.
How cool is that?

775
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,240
You're binding them together,
but the.

776
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:06,040
Devils in the middle of those
that they okay.

777
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,880
The thread is subsequently
buried or hidden, and unless it

778
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,000
can be found and either burnt or
have the knots untied, there is

779
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,000
small hope for the man to
recover from his impotence.

780
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,440
There is no doubt, I think, that
the extreme fear in which this

781
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,200
spell is held has in some cases
so worked upon the bridegroom's

782
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,720
nerves as to render the binding
actually effective, just as

783
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:33,200
extreme faith in miraculous in
miraculous icons occasionally

784
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,600
effects cures of.
I don't know, I cut the last bit

785
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:36,840
of that off, but you see what
I'm saying?

786
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,440
Some of the grooms are so scared
of a witch casting an impotence

787
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,520
spell on them that they then
render themselves impotence.

788
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,880
Did I know when I started did
this episode that I was going to

789
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,800
be talking about impotence so
much?

790
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,080
No, I didn't.
Am I bothered by it?

791
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:56,440
Also no.
Also no.

792
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,960
Hopefully you weren't either.
So all to say, the three women

793
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,680
that Good composer saw sitting
outside of Grandma's house, who

794
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,360
were they?
Were they the three fates?

795
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,720
Were they perhaps the Hocus
Pocus witches?

796
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,320
I don't remember their.
Names off the top of my head.

797
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,200
So who knows?
We'll never know.

798
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,240
We'll never know if they were
intending to cast an evil eye.

799
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:23,280
We'll never know if they were
trying to cast some sort of

800
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,280
impotent spell.
We'll never know.

801
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,000
We'll never know.
But if you have a strange

802
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,520
encounter with someone that may
be considered a witch, or at

803
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,320
least which adjacent, you can
send me your story and I may

804
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,080
read it on the show. e-mail me
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

805
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,200
And again, good composer, thank
you so much for allowing me to

806
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,680
read your story.
And I hope everybody learned at

807
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,240
least one thing from this
episode.

808
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:51,480
In fact, let me know.
Leave a comment on Spotify or

809
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,680
e-mail me at
madamstrangeways@gmail.com.

810
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,880
What was the most interesting
thing that you learned?

811
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,040
From this episode, I'd love to
hear it.

812
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,040
Remember that you can feel
afraid and not be in danger.

813
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,440
You're safe here with me,
probably.

814
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,960
Thank you for joining me for
more true strange stories of the

815
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,400
unexplained.
Now I'm running A1 Madam Show

816
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,160
here, so please do me a strange
solid and follow the podcast or

817
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,480
leave me a rating on Apple or
Spotify and maybe even join the

818
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,680
Patreon at patreon.com/madam
Strangeways for bonus content.

819
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,040
Madam Strangeways is produced
and narrated by me.

820
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,800
Madam Strangeways theme music is
by marina.ryan@marinamakes.co.

821
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,000
Cover art is by Andrea Chiselle
Roldan at Cult of Teddy on

822
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,040
Instagram.
Every Strange story is shared

823
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,880
with the permission of the
author.

824
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,120
You can submit your own true
strange story to

825
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,880
madamstrangeways@gmail.com or
check out the website

826
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:06,320
madamstrangeways.com.
See you soon, she said

827
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:07,440
ominously.